Radioradio and Laurie have it wrong—Dave is well-respected and well-loved around here and this whole situation is heartbreaking. It is a testament to how seriously we take transparency, no matter what the resentful rumor mill says about it. Critical coverage of any art form invites grumbling that artists X and Y get coverage and artists A and B don't because there some conspiracy against them—that A and B haven't paid, screwed, or simply glad-handed their way into print. It's natural for artists to blame someone other than themselves for their lack of success and coverage, which makes it triply important that critics be very, very careful not to do anything that would legitimize those inevitable suspicions. The fact that all this is going down is a rare (and sad) chance to see that seriousness of critical purpose in action.

There isn't any grand conspiracy to boot Dave—and it's insulting to him and to the rest of us for you to presume otherwise.

PS Donte

I'll be in town in Dec. Let's geek away!

If Seattle is thought to be such a good music town, one would think the local coverage would be plentiful and varied. As a reader, I'd like to see at least half of all coverage both online and in print to be about local bands. This is hardly ever the case... I would say the f'in Seattle Times does a better job.

I agree with the person who said this was only a reason to fire someone who was underperforming.

I know that the world of blog comments is open to all comments, but i'm sure there are a lot of people who were personally touched by this and who are feeling pretty depressed right now. whether you're the guy who just got caught doing something you shouldn't, his coworker who will miss his workplace antics, or the boss who had to ask some tough questions, I think those of us not involved should respect that this isn't something to be made light of. it's appropriate to say how much you'll miss segal, discuss the nature of the conflicts, but i think it's wrong to start personally attacking those involved.

Ok, I'll revise - The Stranger doesn't have 'more eloquent' writers. They are 'just as capable.' How's that? And omit the word 'healthier.' And empahasize MUSICIANS. If Dave is so smart and such a good writer, tell him to do a journalistic analysis with the software designers of his favorite machines. Say, how do the algorythms in Moog's wiring connections reflect the personality of their creator? Hey, maybe the blog should be called 'Spine Out.'

This is in response to the claims of conspiracy that both of you have denied, probably rightfully so. Since I was asked by Ginger to slow down on conspiracy theories, I'll just say that really my point wasn't whether Dave was being slighted purposely. It's that I feel that his mistake was handled rashly. I realize it's none of my business and that the Stranger may very well have a written policy, signed by their employees, to not allow ad reps to write for the paper. Then again, there may not be a written policy. Not knowing that, my point has been that the offense of asking an ad person to write for the blog, and then for the paper wasn't so serious as to warrant someone losing their job over it.

I appreciate Brendan's comments and and generally agree. However, the issue of who gets coverage and who doesn't is always an issue - whether it's from someone writing under an alias or whether a staff or magazine has a preference toward certain types of music. You can't cover it all.

This was not a high crime. We hear of incidents in politics all the time of people doing far more offensive things and getting the support of their superiors. My complaint has been that if the admission of a mistake had been made by Dave and he made a writtten apology I think it would be fully accepted. My feeling is that club owners, wouldn't really give a damn. Unless perhaps there had been proof of blatant favoritism.

So really, again, it's not about whether Dave lost his job because somebody wanted him to lose his job... it's about whether he really had to lose his job.

If we hear that the Stranger has a written policy, then so be it. I think most agree that he violated trust, but it's about music writing that began with blog posts... it's not like he leaked C.I.A. secrets or something.

"Popular knowledge around town, and quiet rumblings have been that the music section, under Dave's leadership, had suffered."

Huh, that's funny...I have not heard one single thing from one single person even so much as eluding to that, and I somewhat frequently speak with a number of musicians, DJs (both radio and club), bands, bookers, promoters, and club owners from all walks of the music community. Nor have I read anything about that in any of the 147 other posts that have been made so far (as of the time of this writing) in the threads regarding Segal's resignation. Hmm, these "quiet rumblings" must have been very, very quiet indeed. So quiet, in fact, that it seems you (and perhaps your circle of friends) are the only person/s who heard them.

Laurie said:

"Let's be "honest", Dave "suffered" because he may have realized that other Stranger personnel were more eloquent writers and had healthier ties to a wider range of musicians (people that strum and pound) in town."

followed up by:

"Ok, I'll revise - The Stranger doesn't have 'more eloquent' writers. They are 'just as capable.' How's that? And omit the word 'healthier.' And empahasize MUSICIANS. If Dave is so smart and such a good writer, tell him to do a journalistic analysis with the software designers of his favorite machines. Say, how do the algorythms in Moog's wiring connections reflect the personality of their creator?"

Laurie, I don't know you from Adam and perhaps you are a decent person, but by saying that Dave Segal suffered because other Stranger music writers had ties to a wider range of musicians in town - "people that strum and pound", as you say - really does make you look like a closed minded elitist bitch. Who the fuck are you to say which people who make music are and aren't musicians? Your Neanderthal-like definition of what a musician is ("people that strum and pound") is so pathetic that it would be laughable were it not for that (sadly) you seem to be serious. And as for your claim that Segal suffered because there are other music writers at The Stranger who have ties to a wider range of musicians in town, well it seems to me that the music editor should be chosen based on his or her knowledge of music, journalism experience, and writing ability (which very clearly are indeed the exact reasons why Segal was chosen) instead of based on which musicians they're friends with. This isn't your high school paper, Laurie, and it's not a fucking popularity contest either. Maybe Segal didn't hang out at the Cha Cha and get drunk with all his hipster rock star buddies, as you seem to think is an important qualification for a music editor to have, but when it comes to music knowledge and writing ability, Segal was rarely equaled and never surpassed by any other Stranger music writer - past or present.

Someone using the handle Me said:

"Well, aside from "what happened" I think this is a good thing, overall. Mr Segal never seemed to be a very good music editor, he just didn't seem to know a whole lot about different genres, nor did he have the ability to write (well) about music that he personally wasn't a fan of. If Seattle is thought to be such a good music town, one would think the local coverage would be plentiful and varied."

Either you didn't regularly read Segal's articles or your comments expose your own total ignorance of different genres of music. I was involved in radio for ten plus years and as a result I know a bit more about music than your average bear, and yet I was always in awe of how much stuff I could learn about so many different genres of music just from reading his artcles - everything from obscure/experimental rock, to hip-hop, to avant jazz, to funk, to electronic. And as was already said by somone else on this blog (see post #14 above), it isn't a music editor's job to be able to write well about every music genre. That's why there are several writers (both salaried and freelance) who all have different tastes and areas of expertise who contribute writing to the music section. It's absurd that you would suggest that any one person should be able to write well about every genre of music. And as far as your comment that "...one would think the local coverage would be plentiful and varied", do you even read The Stranger? Every fucking week there are regular columns in the music section covering everything from rock to Americana/roots to hip-hop to electronic to classical to jazz/avant. If you don't think that qualifies as "plentiful and varied", then perhaps your comments aren't even worth responding to.

Per Usual said:

"I'm happy that the stranger did the right thing (advertising and editorial don't mix, not even accidentally!), and we are lucky to have such a dignified bunch there running our weekly - dignified in that management pursued the matter and dignified in that Dave resigned.

First off, judging from the circumstances, it seems highly unlikely that Segal's "resignation" was done of his own volition. Rather, it seems quite obvious that it was a case of management basically telling him, "Resign or we'll fire you", in so many words.

Now, I agree that what Dave allegedly did was wrong, but I disagree with you that The Stranger necessarily did "the right thing" by forcing him out. By The Stranger's own admission, after reviewing all the articles and postings that Martin made, they did not find any evidence of any preferential treatment being given to any clubs who bought ads in the paper. Given this, wouldn't a public admission from Segal of wrongdoing and an apology (plus a vow never to do it again) have sufficed? If not, then what about even a demotion or something like that? But forcing him out the door just seems to go beyond what is necessary.

Now look, if The Stranger found any evidence whatsoever that any clubs who bought ads in the paper were indeed receiving any extra coverage or any preferential treatment in any of Martin's writings, then I would agree with you that The Stranger did the right thing because in that case not only would journalistic integrity and employee trust have been compromised, but real harm would also have been done. But seeing as how this - by The Stranger's own admission - is not the fact of the matter, it seems that it was a relatively innocuous case of Segal pulling a couple strings to allow a friend and aspiring journalist to have a shot at writing even though her real job made it a potential conflict of interest. Hardly any nefarious intent there. It reminds me of the Clinton impeachment trials where republicans claimed that, since he had lied under oath - which is a serious crime - they had no choice but to impeach him and that any president with any moral fiber would voluntarily step down. If one were to just look at Clinton's lying under oath in a vacuum without considering the context of what he lied about, then yes...the republicans would have indeed been correct in their assertions. But when one considers what Clinton actually lied about - that he had consensual sex with an adult intern - then impeaching him or demanding that he step down starts to look a bit overkill, doesn't it? Well it's the same with The Stranger forcing Dave to "resign". If you look at it in a vacuum, as do such statements as, "journalism and advertising don't mix, period", then sure...it does seem like forcing Segal out was the right thing to do. But when you look at it in context, taken directly from The Stranger's own mouth ("...a preliminary investigation of Martin’s writings for the paper did not turn up any direct evidence of Martin having given favorable coverage to bands or clubs she worked with in her capacity as Club Advertising Coordinator. That position was a salaried support sales staff position, not a commissioned position, and Martin primarily served as an assistant to the senior sales staff"), then it seems overkill. And that is why so many people are wondering whether outside influences or internal politics at The Stranger (or both) had something to do with Segal's "resignation". I'm not saying it did or didn't, as right now neither I nor anyone else has enough information to know for sure. But when such a drastic measure is taken for what ultimately seems to be a relatively innocuous transgression void of any bad intentions, one can't help but wonder.

And to whichever person is inevitably going to try ridicule me for comparing the resignation of the music editor at The Stranger to the President being impeached, save it. I'm just using that analogy to illustrate my point because it's one in which most people on this blog (unless they're really young) are familar with and I really do think there are valid parallels between the two.

- this is how I fundamentally feel about it as well. Not just for edm, (electronic dance music) but for quality music in all genres as a whole. Dave played a huuuuge role in reshaping that local weekly rag. I honestly cannot think of anyone in this town who could have done what he did in the context of that paper. Here's hoping for him to find a new gig thats both complimentary to his vast knowledge and passion for sound - and hopefully (maybe a bit selfishly) one we can all reap the benefits of locally.

Irregarless of the particulars of the situation, and the business ethics involved, this is a loss, in no small way, to local culture as a whole that will not easily be reversed.

Jefferson

Data: Sir, I was only trying to *boing-beep* cooperate like humanoids.

Spock: There is a consensus to leave you stranded at our next port-of-call.

Data: But sir, this is causing *blip-snog* a, what do call *swank-ratchet* it, Mipaine?

Spock: It is a migraine, actually, just a headache. Take two aspirin and telecall me in the morning.

Data: What is tomorr *ching-ka* ow? I only exist in the *shnizzle-fizzle* moment.

Spock: Tomorrow is the time of our arrival at the Nikeymetropoliscam. Which reminds me, we must gather the rare weave of shoelaces for the staff's new footware.

Data: Yessir. The boot coinage, Redartbocks, was processed *streem-zot* through the same disk I've been implanted *coff-coff* with for...

Spock: Silence. Data, your nerve implants are slightly contagious. Go. You've been a dutiful source of, well, data.

Hear, hear. There's definitely a correlary between the currently thriving state of the local experimental/noise scene and Dave's enthusiastic public support of it and other genres that would normally have difficulty finding publicity otherwise. To be fair, Chris DeLaurenti does a bang-up job in those areas, but within the constraints of a weekly column. The balance Dave provided between larger coverage of the more popular/conventional areas and the more marginal was far more impressive than that of previous editors, and a welcome jolt of altruism that was undeniably a boon to the community. I'm not going to weigh in on the circumstances of his resignation at this time except to agree that it is a loss to the paper and our city's live music culture that will likely be felt. Here's hoping otherwise, thanks for the hard work, Dave.

dave got canned because he asked people for grateful dead concert recording recommendations in a somewhat recent line out posting.

* and this, over time, gnawed away at the stranger brass. *

in the posting, dave explained how he'd talked to some famous black electronic or DJ musician at the baltic room, and how this person had gone on and ON bout how absolutely kick ass the dead's "dicks picks" series is ...and dave professed to being nearly completely ignorant about the band's legendary track record (and also expressed surprise at a modern black musician being interested in their music)

if in charge of the stranger i would have canned him for this posting/explanation as well, but for an altogether different reason than expressing interest in "hippie " music...

i'd have canned him for NOT having any clue whatsoever that the grateful dead's "dick's picks" is arguably the best series* of concert recordings ever officially released by a "rock" band. it is inexcusable, IMNSHO, for a music editor of a major alt-weekly to not be hip to MUSIC 101 stuff of this sort...

;-)

*the dick's picks series is ongoing...

My speculations are way too lengthy? My post was lengthy, yes, but the only speculating I made was this:

"First off, judging from the circumstances, it seems highly unlikely that Segal's "resignation" was done of his own volition. Rather, it seems quite obvious that it was a case of management basically telling him, "Resign or we'll fire you", in so many words."

One small paragraph of speculation is too lengthy?

And you're correct, I wasn't there. But judging from what The Stranger themselves have admited so far about the circumstances, and from what I know about Dave on a personal level, it seems very unlikely that he would have voluntarily resigned unless he was forced to. Maybe I'm wrong, but I highly doubt it. But we'll see soon enough.

This is a huge loss for our local music community. My Thursday morning bus ride just got a whole lot longer.

"But Savage also said the potential for conflict appears to have been untapped, and the weekly will repost all Martin's stories upon review."

Let's not jump the gun on reinstatenment here.

The media industry is FILLED with conflict of interest. And I'm guessing this isn't the only one at the Stranger right now.

So, does this offically mean that a new music editor will re-convince the general North West community of the importance of the Murder City Devils, Modest Mouse and other 'yes, we know already' bands?

Editorial content needs to be as separate from revenue as possible. Naturally enough, clubs appreciate being written about, but that needs to kept separate from reviews of the artists playing them. Ideally the clubs wouldn't recognize the reviewers when they come in the doors.

Very professional decision. Up a notch for The Stranger.

I bet you think KEXP plays bands that matter. Oh wait? They're sponsoring tours for bands that aren't even in this country? Oh and they're putting on shows in NYC? I wonder if that gets kickbacks from those bands labels. Oh sorry, underwriting.

yawn.

ps:
go blow your... simplistic hot air in another aimless direction