I can't even begin to think of how many lame sound dudes I've had to deal with over the years. I think a blowup guitar and marshall stack would be just as effective...they need the "release" somehow and obviously doing sound aint helping!!! Have you ever noticed it takes a certain type of personality to want to be a sound man (aka asshole)??

q: what's the difference between a toilet and a sound guy?

a: a toilet only has to deal with one asshole at a time.

It is true, in the ongoing war between soundmen and musican, both sides have their points.

It does seem accurate to say that soundmen are more the most part crusty.

But it also seems fair to say that many musicians are drunk egotistical brats.

Everyone needs blow up dolls.

The only thing worse than a sound-rage-sex-doll-pumping sound person is an insecure, "no talent ass clown" musician whose own precarious misgivings of skill and/or talent (or lack of) have the propensity to spark and inflame such an unfavorable encounter upon load-in. This really isn't surprising. There is an awful lot of music happening in this city and the bulk of it is deemed crap by this very publication. In sound person language: "you can't polish a turd."

Uh oh, we've got no talent ass clowns flying around.

Ryan, I couldn't disagree with you more, I think.

When there are 3 hours before the doors open, no one is around, everyone involved is sober, the sound person has no reason to act like a dick.

I can understand it when things are running late, it's crowded, and people are shitfaced. The soundman probably has to act like a dick to get things done. (Like when bands take 20 minutes to break down.)

But when it's load in, things are quiet, and there's plenty of time, jumping down my throat for no reason is the ass clown thing to do. See, that soundguy gets a doll.

It's got nothing to do with how good or bad the band or musician or soundguy is. It's about setting up gear and getting ready for the show and doing your job. So do your job and try not to act like a dickhead. Is that so hard?

Do you get a doll, Ryan?

i haven't always felt this way, but i've come to realize over the years: house soundmen have to deal w/ incompetent musicians/bands far more often then bands deal w/ incompetent soundmen. this is esp. true in any halfway reputable club in any medium-size city. as a band, you're heading into THEIR club. if you're playing, be polite, pro, and knowledgeable during sound or line check. in my experience, this usually makes most personality probs go away. if you encounter genuine incompetence or rudeness, bitch them out AFTER your show.

Bosch, I know you want a doll. And I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah, it's their club and their sound. Last thing I want to do is piss them off.

But I'm saying when I am respectful and nice as I can be and have been on the road for 3 weeks getting it night in night out. It's hard.

Sometimes I just want to cuddle the soundman and see if that helps. If he doesn't want to cuddle, he gets a doll.

t-stak, all them dudes are born grumpy (like middle girl. you need to do a line-out about middle girl). and when you walk thru the door of their stinky club in kansas or D.C. or moscow - they want to show you how they do that grump thing -- then at the end of the night, they want that doll. and that's when you give it to em.

Cuddling is the answer.

This may be wrong, but I want a soundman blow up doll.

Buying the soundman a drink or at least offering one before the show or durring sound check is usualy a good idea. Be prepared as a band for the show, don't expect miracles from the sound man. Getting on the good side of the sound man is plus. I known soundman who have come through for bands that have forgoten mics, cables, pedals even instruments. I agree with Bosch, bitch them out AFTER the show.

No no, Scoob, you're not wrong or sick. You are oh so right.

It's the same reason I have a Dick Cheney blow up doll. I've been fucking it for 2 years and I can't tell you how good it makes me feel.

oh yeah, in addition to my post above, don't ever, ever ever forget the doll . If there is no doll offer a friends mom. This may also work against you. Use this method with caution.

The best way to deal with a kranky soundman is to turn it up until you can't hear them yelling at you. Oh yeah and throw beer everywhere, and break their equipment, Oh wait thats what most bitchy musicians do already. Keep your dolls for yourselves.

Yes, some soundpeeps have been doing it for too long and may be grumpy... remember it is there job... are you always in the best place at your job? Do you deal with EGO's all night / day long? Are you exposed to the attitude from alot of musicians and then the quite often the terrible audible onslaught of what the guy on stage living his dream calls "the best music ever"? Nope.... I give much credit to the soundpeeps, I'm nice to them from the get go and it seems to come back at me... I've been playing in bands for 25 years, and am still playing out at clubs and have yet to experience the "dickitude" everyone is expressing. Maybe I've just been really lucky for all those years.

Best soundpeeps in town - Jim at the Croc. That's not saying anything about their security - now that's a whole other story. Peace

Agreed, gots to be nice to the soundman/girl. They do deal with a lot, and yes it is their job. Just like in every job and everything there are the occasional dickheads that deserve to have fuck dolls made modeled after them.

Trent has hit on something here that stems out into a bit of socio psychological behavior. What is the best way to deal with cranky people? Espcecially when those cranky people are in a position of power or control?

i've found it's usually a good idea to take dr.heavy's advice. i've personally seen him destroy several dolls on occasion, whether as a soundman or noiseman... i love it when he's grumpy.

wow. a dick cheney blow-up doll. after you fuck it, can you throw up on it?

Back to the behavioral science thing. If you've tried being nice to them and have been patient with it. And if you have tried to steer clear of any confrontation, go ahead and fuck the doll. Fuckin usually helps everything.

Speaking as a soundguy, my big moment of crankiness with bands revolves around what time to show up. I'll give bands an hour's window -- say, between 8 and 9 -- and some bands will take this to mean 9:30.

Between 8 and 9 doesn't mean 9:30. I know, shocking, but tell it to the bands. Given that the Moon has a limited amount of stage space, if a certain band shows up late they can't store their gear in the proper place.

Since I also book, I also get the occasional band show up and say something like "Oh, can we play second instead of third?" Nevermind that I booked the show two months prior to this.

If you wanna read more stories about bands, fans, and other mouth breathers, hit the Blue Moon blog.

Also, what is the difference between dickhead and complete dickhead?

It is notable that the most professional and nice/cool sound people I have ever encountered work at the biggest venues. I'm not talking just about Seattle.

The mid sized clubs get the dicks...these guys are hard pressed to get hired at a larger club.

Surprise surprise...if you act professional while performing your job you can advance in your career.

Unfortunately the same doesn't quite apply to musicians, as we all know.

a dickhead can be reformed (a la, w/ the help of doll of choice). a complete dickhead has no chance in hell, ever

SPECIAL REPORT: there are good sound guys and bad sound guys....just like any guys. In my experience, they vary greatly. Seattle, however, seems to have a higher proportion of sound guys with Small Brain Disease, or SBD.

Bosch, I will treat you like a doll any day.

In all seriousness, having been on both sides, a soundman, and a soundman's torture, I think the best idea is to let them do their thing and hope for the best. It all comes back to them in the end. I have seen soundmen be cool/dicks/bored/asleep all over the US and the one thing they all hate is musicians who bitch asbout soundmen.

As far as the Dick Cheney doll sign me up, I love to puke on stuff.

To add to Jason @20's comment - bands who show up late and act like pricks also piss off all the other bands who bothered to show up on time and act like professionals.

Yeah, save showing up late for band practice.

I just want to puke on stuff, piss people off and show up late, who am I?

remmurd a = rewsnA

jim @the croc is a professional always. i'm sure he's dealt with his share of egos... so that just means the soundman doesn't have to be a dick unless they want to (or if that's there way of dealing).

this is especially true when you are, as in the example, a nice band who is on time and professional. in those cases, when the soundman is a dick you just have to suck it up.

i've found it's best to talk to the guy/girl right away. be friendly and introduce yourselves; ask where to put your gear. let them know you realizse they are in charge, so to speak, and that you'll be available if they need you. after that, let him know where you are in the line up, and ask if s/he needs to know anything else (how many band members, vocal mics, etc...).

if they want to be a dick after that, well, then, just save your venom for post show. remain professional until the end.

in a band, we've shown up at 8 only to sit around for two hours doing nothing... multiple times. there are two sides to the coin.

thier

I actually don't think it is EVER good to vent at the soundguy. Even after the show. Cause they remember. And the next time you play... Funny how that low end cuts out...

But seriously, do soundmen really sabotage the sound? Does that really happen? If it sounds like shit, that means they as sound men sound like shit.

I'm not in a band and I don't run sound boards, but as a member of the audience wonder how bands (and venues) can do more to ensure a good sound mix.

FWIW, on the occasions I've gone to the sound guy (it's only been guys) and explained what I'm hearing, they have usually been understanding & responsive, so kudos on that score. I think they generally care and try to do their best, but the sound ought to be checked from someone besides the sound guy/girl and the band. (The band usually doesn't hear what the audience hears.) So what about some QA from the house management or the band's mgmt (or friends)?

I think it is safe to say that if you are in the audience and you are not happy with the sound at the show you are watching, don't tell the sound engineer. If you feel the need to say something right away, ask for the manager. If they think they need to they will approach the sound engineer and let them know.

If you have a general complaint about sound quality at a club you attend and it is a repeated problem, write a letter to the club management. This will also let them know the public isn't happy with the club's sound.

If you complain directly to the engineer when they are working, it will only make them mad. No one likes to be confronted when working. Remember there are one or two sound engineer(s) and 100 to 1000 audience members. They will feel overwhelmed if people keep suggesting how they should do their jobs. They might just be trying to fix the very thing you want to tell them about when you approach them.

Like I said if they don't fix it, or it is a repeated problem, let the club management or club booker know.

If you are a band and are not happy with a certain club's sound engineer, bring your own. I spent the majority of my career as a sound engineer working for bands, not for clubs. Bands hired me to make sure their mix sounded good. If you can't afford someone, get a friend and teach them to do sound, they can work with the club's sound engineers and hopefully fix the problem.

In the end I will say just try to have a good time, sometimes even if it sounds bad, you can have a few cocktails and it won't seem as bad.

29 is pretty right on. there's no universal answer to this or anything else, but during the 7 years that I was playing out every week my understanding was that our best bet was to keep in mind that I was in someone else's place from the minute we walked in the door. Everyone has good or bad days, the band, the sound guy, the bartender... but regardless of where you're at when you walk in the door, this is their place of business and all the equipment is theirs. Start things off on the right foot and you're going to be more likely to have a good night.

I really appreciated when the sound guy took the time to communicate to us his expectations, and that didn't happen often enough. If he wants me and the other guys to do things his way, he's going to have to communicate what that means. The most frustrating nights were when nothing was made clear and then dude turns into an ass because we aren't reading his mind...

If someone is an ass, despite your professionalism, the reaction should be tempered by the reality. Is it a good venue where you want to play again? Keep your piehole shut. Is it a town that you're praying you never see again? Mouthing off in that case doesn't make nearly the impact that the countless other options could... I'd much rather make an asshole's life harder by doing a little creative rewiring after my set is done and my gear is in the van and then maybe stick around to have a drink and enjoy the confusion...

Well well well. Moorman. I'll level with you. I moved here from Reno...the land of the casino cover bands that are wrinkled, greasy, and way over-payed. They all (not some, all) truly thought, at one time or another, they had that little gem inside to make them huge big curly hair rockstars. Needless to say, it didn't work out. This is why they are playing the Atlantis Hotel-Casino resort cabaret stage at 3:30am to a handful of wrinkled, old, light-blue, stretch wrangler waring powder domes sucking down a pack of Winstons, yanking on a slot arm.

The point of all that being, these guys were definitely on the top of the not so friendly, wildly insecure list of musicians. After doing sound for these guys for 10 years in various venues (luckily I never had to work in a casino) I realized that as soon as insecurity walked in the problems went down. The best musicians, the most talented people with the most going for them never dropped a badtitiude. And I guess that's my point. It really doesn't matter if its the sound guy or the band guy. Check your tude at the door dude.

And yes. I want a sound man doll. I already have a baba in my road case for whiners. Over the last 3 years I did the production management for the Hilton Outdoor Amphitheater in Reno. I had a mini baby bottle on a lanyard. If someone in my crew, sound, lights, stage whatever, started complaining or dropping the badtitude, they had to ware it around their neck.

It's really too bad that sound guys, upon load-in, are dicks. Why would you do that to begin with? If you are a club owner, fire those incompetent tools. Those guys make the rest of us look bad. The only band I knowlingly pissed off in the 10 short years I've been doing this stuff was Mickey Thomas and Starship. And those clowns deserved it!