Line Out - Comments on It's Class, Stupid

Comment by jz

jz — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:41:11 -0800

so what kind of music do low-income, trade-working people listen to? im asking honestly. country? hiphop? britney spears?

Comment by matthew fisher wilder

matthew fisher wilder — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:58:46 -0800

JZ, ???

I don't think Carl Wilson's talking about the listeners here as much as the artists themselves. Not to defend Wilson's statement, since there are plenty of lower income people making the same type of independent rock, although it may tend more towards hardcore.

Comment by matthew fisher wilder

matthew fisher wilder — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:59:40 -0800

Yes, Wilson does use the word "fans", but I think his greater point is targetting the artists.

Comment by jz

jz — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:17:00 -0800

he uses the phrase "musicians and fans."

but maybe youre right, MWF. so the question is what kind of music are lower income-earners making? i take a look around seattle and the "indie rockers" i know dont own condos, or even cars.

"indie rock" is a stupid term, then. what were really talking about is "poor white people rock." or something.

this has turned into a really weird conversation.

Comment by matthew fisher wilder

matthew fisher wilder — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:22:57 -0800

This should be probably be filed under East Coast Music Journo Bullshit. :D

Comment by matthew fisher wilder

matthew fisher wilder — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:30:05 -0800

I just can't stop it!

OK, now to infer from all of the above.

* SFJ wins in the publicity-for-SFJ finals once again
* Carl Wilson makes good point, but also misses some crucial counterarguments.
* Rich kids make indie rock today.
* Poorer kids make indie rock today, too.
* Many poor kids made indie rock yesterday before it was called indie rock.
* A few rich kids made indie rock yesterday but plenty of them formed labels to put it out, or had richer parents help them out.

So, summing that all up, more rich people are making indie rock than they are releasing it, and one ex-indie rock journalist knows how to rile people up whether it's his intent or not.

Isn't that profound?

*Headache*

Comment by Smash Yr Head

Smash Yr Head — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:33:37 -0800

It's hard, no impossible, to deny that indie rock is not dominated by privilaged white kids. Look around. Do you see black, hispanic, or asian kids at Arcade Fire, Decemberist or Clap Your Hands Say Yeah shows?

Comment by jz

jz — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:38:42 -0800

@7--thats hardly a revelation.

Comment by Smash Yr head

Smash Yr head — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:01:14 -0800

I know, but it's frustrating none the less.

Comment by Chalupa

Chalupa — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:17:55 -0800

"i take a look around seattle and the "indie rockers" i know dont own condos, or even cars."

But they usually come from backgrounds where their parents or families are doing pretty well--or at least middle class. And that allows many indie musicians to spend time on their not-so-lucrative bands and easy lifestyles. They can be slackers because they have something to fall back on.

They don't have the same kind of urgency that produced the punk and grunge movements, where musicians used their bands and music as an escape from their poor, blue-collar backgrounds and the boredom and problems associated with it. They had something to rebel against.

Comment by Brandon

Brandon — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 15:41:00 -0800

we are all just grains of sand in this hourglass of life, brah

Comment by Jason Josephes

Jason Josephes — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:32:04 -0800

People get paid to write that shit. Wow.

Comment by Abby

Abby — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:46:00 -0800

So what exactly do SFJ and Carl Wilson want indie rock to do? Can't they just not listen if the Arcade Fire isn't what they want to hear? I'm very confused.

Comment by matthew fisher wilder

matthew fisher wilder — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:52:48 -0800

Gee, people who can afford stuff usually buy or make music than those who can't.

Comment by anna

anna — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 19:36:16 -0800

Didn't Pulp's "Common People" frame this discussion back in 1995?

Comment by Dougsf

Dougsf — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:28:16 -0800

Arcade Fire isn't a fucking rock and roll band, first of all. Secondly, if the author really wanted to see some working class/underclass white guys bang out some traditional rock and roll, it really isn't that hard to find a bar or club any night of the week that will accommodate that wish. Truth is, she DIDN'T want to see rock and roll, she wanted to go see what all the buzz was about, and had a hard time contextualizing it.

Why is she trying to tackle 100 years of American culture in 4 pages? If I were the editor of the New Yorker, I'd have handed it back to here with the note: "Be more specific, write about what you know."

Comment by Dougsf

Dougsf — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:38:36 -0800

Oops, apparently Sasha Frere-Jones is a HE, not a SHE. Doesn't really matter.