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<title>Line Out - Comments on Can You Like Sound, But Not Music?</title>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music</link>
<description>Clive Thompson, whose Collision Detection blog is a must-feed for mostly non-musical reasons, read the recent Rolling Stone article on the declining sound quality of modern music, which stated that &quot;the age of the audiophile is over,&quot; and said: Thank...</description>
<copyright>Copyright 2008</copyright>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 00:10:01 -0800</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:34:27 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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<docs>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss</docs> 

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<title>Comment by Paulus</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Dude, Boston sounds good coming out of a tin can!</p>]]></description>
<author>Paulus</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c891843</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c891843</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:21:24 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by j-lon</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Can you enjoy food that looks good but doesn't taste so inspiring? Can you be put off of food that looks not so great but tastes amazing? </p>

<p>Me thinks the answer is yes on both accounts. Why else do we garnish shit brown stews and braises? Some fresh green color really helps the eyes overcome a reluctance to put that sort of thing in our mouths.</p>

<p>Music is no different. It can be good at the level of composition but not sound so great at the level of timbre. Or it can sound great at the level of timbre, but not work so well at the compositional level. </p>

<p>As in cooking, these two things are kind of intertwined. A good recipe probably doesn't just consider the blending of the flavors. It also pays attention to how the dish will look when it's finished.</p>

<p>The same goes for music. A good composer/arranger appreciates how timbre (sound as sound) interrelates with melodic and harmonic development (sound organized as something we have come, as a culture, to call music).</p>

<p>Music/Sound is a drug. Different people experience the same drug differently. That's probably why there are a lot of different kinds of drugs, and lots of lore surrounding just about every single one of them (i.e., what's the best way to make it? what's the best way to take it?)</p>

<p>I enjoy the sugary melody of power pop? While I can certainly consume and enjoy really loud dark hard rock, it doesn't generally do as much for me, because it seems to be more about getting enveloped in a sound, rather than taking the listener on a linear, melodic journey. And that's not really a place I enjoy as much.</p>

<p>That's why I like "Superunknown" and "Nevermind" better than earlier Soundgarden and Nirvana. These discs have more of those attributes. It's like someone balanced out a really assertive almost butter spiciness with some acidic and sweet elements. </p>]]></description>
<author>j-lon</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c891875</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c891875</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:41:03 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Trevor</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I like how nonchalantly you talk about <i>making</i> sushi for entirely different reasons than you enjoy <i>eating</i> it.  Most of us know what it means to <i>eat</i> sushi.  The question is, what will it take to get you out here to Brooklyn to make it?</p>]]></description>
<author>Trevor</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c891880</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c891880</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:57:54 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by stranger freelancin groot</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>HOW IS THIS ESOTERICISM PROMOTING DANCE CLUBS IN SEATTLE?!<br />
YOUR SALARY IS BASED ON THE ADVERTISING!!<br />
NOW BACK TO WORK AND GET ME MORE GOSSIP!!</p>]]></description>
<author>stranger freelancin groot</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892337</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892337</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 09:22:58 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Biggie J</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>So am I to believe that audiophiles are the ones ruining music for the rest of us?</p>]]></description>
<author>Biggie J</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892427</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892427</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 09:45:08 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by cosby</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>although i agree with most of the linked blog post, it falls apart due to the notion that all music listeners listen for one thing - like there is one unified goal for music listening.  i'm sure most of the pop listeners of the world don't give a shit about nuance or over-compression.  i would say that most people listen to the lyrics to speak to their own emotion, though personally lyrics don't mean much (if anything) to me.  i would venture to say that i'm not the only one.  in my opinion, no one would listen to noise music if there weren't interest in sound over the quality of music in a pop sense - i mean who the fuck would really listen to merzbow if pop music is the goal?</p>

<p>saying audiophiles are stupid for paying a lot of money to listen to music is like saying car enthusiasts are stupid for paying a lot of money to get from point a to point b.  sometimes there is more than the travel alone.</p>

<p><br />
audiophiles <i>are</i> a fucking joke though.  car enthusiasts too.</p>]]></description>
<author>cosby</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892499</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892499</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:06:36 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by nipper</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>the best audio experience I EVER had was a stack of beat to shit Wailers 45s being played, wide open, on a '50s TUBE hi-fi...ONE 15" speaker with a mono, ceramic cart!  The reproduction was as if the band was playing LIVE.  You don't need a "room" or $54K...just new tubes.</p>]]></description>
<author>nipper</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892533</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892533</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:17:47 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by j-lon</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Not that it really matters at this point, but that should read "bitter spiciness" in @2 above.</p>]]></description>
<author>j-lon</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892650</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892650</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:52:49 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Chris Estey</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Nipper Rules!</p>

<p>I seem to read this same article every couple of years -- "The goddamned COMPRESSION! It's killing everything!" (Doulgas Wolk's a few years ago was the most astute piece, actually, but then it was one of the first.) So the RS article was simply boring to me. </p>

<p>I think a lot of this has to do with memory, individual and collective. (1.) I hated the sound of CDs in the early 90s probably as much due to their digital mastering (which had been around a long time before CDs anyways -- starting with Ry Cooder's-of-all-people "Bop Till You Drop") as to the fact that most of the original music I heard then sucked and just got worse; (2.) I now listen to pre-digital mastering Steely Dan on vinyl (to the sheer horror of my post-riot grrrl punk rock wife) because of the depth and texture of the SOUND, yes, but also because of Bernard Purdie -- AND because it reminds me of making out with Jamie Cooney in a sleeping bag in her backyard in 1978. </p>]]></description>
<author>Chris Estey</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892685</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c892685</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:03:32 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Dr. Dre</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for broadening my horizons with this. I'm off to compose an olfactory symphony. See you in hell.</p>]]></description>
<author>Dr. Dre</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893618</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893618</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:41:17 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Eric Grandy</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I just picked up/stole Oliver Sacks' newish book <i>Musicophilia</i> off Megan's desk (you'll get it back, Megan), and, even though I'm only a few chapters into it, I would wager that, yes, you can like sound but not music.</p>]]></description>
<author>Eric Grandy</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893688</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893688</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:28:20 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Biggie J</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Come off it Grandy you know thats not true. You can be both. I'm sure that precious dance music you like so much can be seen as a combination of both sound and music. Musicophilia by Oliver Stack sounds pretentious as fuck. I will now have to check it out from the library and get back to you.<br />
xoxo</p>]]></description>
<author>Biggie J</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893708</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893708</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:41:30 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Jonathan Golob</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>I'll second Grandy's recommendation of Sacks' book Musicophilia. I think he covers some of the rare people who can hear and enjoy sound, but simply don't get music.</p>

<p>So yeah, a lot of what makes songs catchy--rhythm, repetition and certain frequency patterns, to be overly reductionist--is different from what makes sounds interesting. </p>

<p>Hearing is my favorite of the five senses. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlea" rel="nofollow">The cochlea</a>? The best sensory organ ever--vastly more elegant than the eye, more comprehensive than smell, taste or touch. </p>

<p>The big problem? As we age, the delicate hair cells in the cochlea, that detect sound, are slowly killed off. (A reason to envy a chicken: hearing in birds can regenerate. People and other mammals? Not so much.) So, we steadily destroy our best sense simply by using it.</p>

<p>Here's my question back to you, the greater music community: why the fuck is live music so loud? I'm left with the choice of destroying my hearing or putting in earplugs and messing up the balance. </p>

<p>To me, one of the best things about classical music--in a great concert hall like Detroit's, Boston's or New York's--is the ability to enjoy subtle beautiful sounds, like a woodwind solo, in the context of engaging music.</p>]]></description>
<author>Jonathan Golob</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893759</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893759</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:26:27 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Eric Grandy</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Um, read #11 again, Biggie. Nowhere do I say you <i>must</i> like one or the other, only that I  think it's <i>possible</i> to like one but not the other. Dig?</p>]]></description>
<author>Eric Grandy</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893772</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893772</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:33:18 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by motor city meat</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p><i>Here's my question back to you, the greater music community: why the fuck is live music so loud?</i></p>

<p>To blot out thoughts of mortality.<br />
</p>]]></description>
<author>motor city meat</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893952</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c893952</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:16:06 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Jonathan Golob</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Re-reading my response, I sound like a crank. ;p I wrote it after a long aggravating day at work. Now after a few beers at dinner, I'm prepared to admit the following: I spent the better part of the day blasting away my hearing with this song.</p>

<p><a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=-fZX_3J_Ykk" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=-fZX_3J_Ykk</a></p>

<p>so good for me, I'd have babies with it if I could.</p>]]></description>
<author>Jonathan Golob</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c894010</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c894010</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:46:08 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Biggie J</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Grandy. How about I read the book first and I will get back to you about  what I think about it. Not trying hit you with any hate but I still think you can like/ appreciate both at the same time. </p>]]></description>
<author>Biggie J</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c894018</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c894018</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:54:41 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by audiophiles aren&apos;t real</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>god, i never comment on people's blogs but this is SO poorly thought out.  i read the post and it's ridiculous.  clive sounds like at least as much of a prissy d-bag as those crazy "audiophiles".</p>

<p>does it really seem weird to like a pop song and also want to listen to it carefully? just because you still like it on your radio shack earbuds means that it's stupid to want anything else?  i bet a REALLY great pop song would still be great if you're getting attacked by a bear, so if you aren't being mauled while you listen, you're a total snot.  </p>

<p>why be a dick about wanting to listen carefully?  who the f is this dude to tell me "pop music is supposed to be a disposable, gritty little lo-fi affair"?  does that sound corny to anybody else?</p>

<p>i've known a good handful of snooty sound guys, and that can be lame, but the only people who ever tell me what music is "supposed to be" are the ones who say rock and roll only happens on 4-tracks.<br />
</p>]]></description>
<author>audiophiles aren&apos;t real</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c894167</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c894167</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:16:53 -0800</pubDate>
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<title>Comment by Clive Thompson</title>
<description><![CDATA[<p>Awesome post! I think you're totally right. It's analogous to guitar-collecting freaks who do not actually *record* or *perform* with their gear, but merely enjoy having 50 different guitars around so they can occasionally play a chord or two and re-experience the timbre that makes each unique.</p>

<p>Oh, and Boston is like the most awesome thing ever!</p>]]></description>
<author>Clive Thompson</author>
<link>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c895812</link>
<guid>http://lineout.thestranger.com/2008/01/can_you_like_sound_but_not_music#c895812</guid>
<category>Business</category>
<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:34:27 -0800</pubDate>
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