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Wednesday, February 20, 2008

Rock & Roll

posted by on February 20 at 9:30 AM


Recently, on this comments thread, it’s been suggested that I don’t like rock & roll. It’s also been suggested that I wear girl pants and suck dick, but we’ll get to that in a second. First, a list of rock bands I’ve written about in recently:

Past Lives

No Age

The Teenagers

Les Savy Fav

Throw Me The Statue

Art Brut

The Thermals

But, of course, the real problem isn’t that I don’t write about rock & roll. It’s that I don’t write about rock & roll as narrowly defined by these commenters (many of them the charming partisans of King Cobra). Because I don’t think rock & roll has to conform to a leather-jacket-slats-hat-and-tattoos aesthetic. Because I don’t think it has to be juvenile or anti-intellectual. Because I don’t think it has to be homophobic, misogynistic, or macho. No, the real problem is that I “wear girl pants,” that I’m an “emo bitch,” or that I’m the “main attraction at [Neighbors’] aids socket/glory hole.” And if that shit’s rock & roll, then you losers can have it.

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bonus points for the heavy metal parking lot pic.

Posted by cosby | February 20, 2008 9:50 AM

Yeah, if you don't write about MY band, then you suck.

Posted by Meat | February 20, 2008 9:52 AM

Dude, you're kind of pulling an ECB with this post - what I mean is, don't let mean comments by some dumb heshers get to you. Grandy, you're doing just fine.

Okay, yeah, sometimes I do wish that you'd cover a bit fuller spectrum of rock music, but it's not like we're being forced to read Line Out as our sole source of music news. You're the editor, you call the shots, so who fucking cares if people complain in the comments?

Posted by Hernandez | February 20, 2008 9:56 AM

Well, you had me up until the homophobic and misogynistic part. :) But seriously, "AIDS socket"? That's a little much. Think of the children! I'm sure a lot of us wish you would steer your talents and influence more toward the music *we* find interesting, but it's your job and your paycheck and I think you should always write about the things *you* love and not try to please the goddamn peanut gallery.

And what the hell is a "slats-hat"? Is that a Fall reference I'm missing?

Posted by danmohr | February 20, 2008 9:59 AM


I will defend you as a writer becuase I think you do a pretty good job covering the music you are excited about and I just happen to share similar tastes.

Your weakest point, much like Erica Barnett, is the ability to handle and respond to criticism.

Effective, positive criticism should be the number one tool of any writer.

Ignore the idiots, they will grow tired waiting for a repsonse and go away.

Focus on the valid points.

Posted by Jeff | February 20, 2008 10:05 AM

To all these people who say , "Eric, you need to handle criticism better."

Lets put you on the block for a second and have people get personal with their relentless frustrated bullshit about you. I GUARANTEE you'd react, and you'd probably react much worse than Eric.

I wish Eric would give it back the fuckers more than he does.

Posted by Meat | February 20, 2008 10:15 AM

@6 - Yeah, but never forget the cardinal rule: If you keep feeding the trolls, they never go away.

Also, if you're going to post on a popular blog, it's part and parcel that some idiot, at some point, is going to take some kind of vicious personal shot at you because it's the internet and it's anonymous. That doesn't make it right, but it is what it is.

I wouldn't be able to handle the personal attacks and bullshit. Hence, I'm not a music writer on this blog and wouldn't want to be. Jeez, have you seen the shit people write about Ari? Ouch.

Posted by Hernandez | February 20, 2008 10:26 AM

People like what they like. For a lot of people the music they like is a big part of their self-created identity (a project generally initiated in adolescence) and as such they fight to defend their tastes with a partisan fervor generally associated with sports matches or regional wars of secession. So yeah, heshers get extra mean when they perceive someone in a position of authority (given that the Stranger functions as a local tastemaker) hating on their favorite music.

Homophobic slams and the like ain't cool, but remember that you also fiercely defend the music that moves you, albeit in less objectionable terms. Presumably this fervor for music is why you were hired to write about music. So at least you can understand the impulse to represent for the music you believe in.

I think any time someone says "I don't like (insert name of band)" and then goes on to say "and those who do have something wrong with them" they can expect a strong negative reaction. It's a dumb thing to fight about, but the internet is the home of the incredibly vicious fight over trivia, so what are you gonna do?

Posted by flamingbanjo | February 20, 2008 10:34 AM

"Because I donít think it has to be juvenile or anti-intellectual."

Art Brut.

Posted by josh | February 20, 2008 10:36 AM

I'm totally down with Line Out, because it highlights a lot of the music I like, and from a local perspective. Eric's list of bands he's recently covered are excellent examples. If at some future date the voices of Line Out start predominantly focusing on stuff I don't like; death metal, tuvan throat singing, Italian opera, Coldplay, whatever; I'll stop checking in. Simple. Lots of other places to get music news. I don't understand people who can't figure that out. I guess they just enjoy getting themselves and everyone else angry over nothing.

You know, sometimes you've got to hand it to sites like Pitchfork. They do what they do, they don't take comments, and they don't give a shit (at least publicly) whether you agree or not.

Posted by rk | February 20, 2008 10:44 AM

girl pants are hot on guys and totally rock and roll.

Posted by rs | February 20, 2008 11:15 AM

You're probably doing a good job of covering the music your demographic is interested, and there's no reason to apologize for that. If readers don't like it, they can get their info elsewhere. There's no reason for anyone to act like your telling us what we can like.

But seriously now, that list doesn't really make much of a case for Rock & Roll. Half those bands probably think their "deconstructing" rock, which it doesn't need to be, and they aren't.

Posted by Dougsf | February 20, 2008 1:33 PM

"Because I donít think it has to be juvenile or anti-intellectual. Because I donít think it has to be homophobic, misogynistic, or macho."

I think you're wrong about what's at the root of the criticism. When you stay stuff like this above, you come off as condescending and stereotyping about rock/punk/hardcore/etc music and it's fans. Guess what, thats tens of thousands of people in this town. You are essentially saying the music you listen to is superior and you are a better person because you don't listen to this horrible low-brow rock every one else likes. There is a way to promote the bands you like without insulting everyone else. Granted it can be fun to be condescending, smug and write about yourself, but when you do, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised when there is a negative reaction to it. Wanna prove to Stranger readers that you don't have enough experience to be a music editor? Keep up the posts like this one.

Posted by dan10things | February 20, 2008 1:50 PM

I feel I wasted another few minutes reading the posts from the previous comments thread. While I don't think that the reaction was totally needed, yours comes off as just as pointless. If you can't take the heat, don't post anything about the King Cobra and they won't be able to comment. Seems simple to me. Remember the Stranger allows the public to post responses, so either buck up or get out the game.

Posted by drheavy | February 20, 2008 2:31 PM

"Guess what, thats tens of thousands of people in this town"

Maybe, Dan, but I'm clearly only responding to a specific thread of comments posted by maybe a couple dozen people.

Posted by Eric Grandy | February 20, 2008 2:45 PM

David Lee Roth !!!!!1!!

Posted by Paulus | February 20, 2008 3:27 PM

And you know, Dan, what would so offend those tens of thousands of people (that you presume to speak for) about suggesting that rock & roll doesn't have to be exclusively the domain of idiots and homophobes?

Posted by Eric Grandy | February 20, 2008 3:29 PM

Also, @14, I love your argument: "Sure, hurling homophobic epithets at someone for no reason is wrong, but calling those people out for it is just as bad." Nice.

Posted by Eric Grandy | February 20, 2008 3:54 PM

Stop feeding the trolls.

Posted by * | February 20, 2008 3:55 PM

Lighten up Francis

Posted by Pee Wee Herman | February 20, 2008 4:06 PM

"Itís that I donít write about rock & roll "

on that note, dont speculate or write pure blather based upon something you know nothing about - like bashing a club that wasn't even open yet.

Everyone can go back to their respective sandboxes and not shit in each others anymore.

PS: Heavy Metal Parking Lot is not 'rock and roll', it is a ironic look at a certain demographic of knuckledraggers outside a Metal show that occurred more than 20 years ago.

Posted by bobcat | February 20, 2008 4:14 PM

Don't forget to wipe your ass when you leave, Bobcat.

Posted by over it | February 20, 2008 4:44 PM

No more ugly rock n' roll! More posts about French electro house please! And M.I.A.!

Posted by Daft Punk SuperFan | February 20, 2008 4:47 PM

BC, I'm still confused as to where Eric was being condescending toward King Cobra when he posted about those shows. sure he wondering aloud (very loudly) if the bookers they hired were worth the salt of a 400+ capacity club, but I think people schooled him well enough. is the unspoken agreement just that he isn't allowed to say anything about King Cobra whether it be positive, negative or neutral? I doubt that's gonna happen and the idea of us all going back our sandboxes gives creedence to the idea that certain places aren't the domain of others we don't approve of. hey wait, didn't I see Eric at the Neurosis show three days ago? didn't he give it a better review than Jeff Kirby, possibly the closest thing to a "metal" guy the Stranger has?

and furthermore, Dan: bullshit. pure and simple. as one of the "tens of the thousands" of people into rock/punk/hardcore, etc, I can safely say I want no part of the puerile homophobia and misogyny that a lot of the rock n' roll types get away with. and I should have a fucking say in that arguement and have the right to call people on that shit. I'm by far not the most PC dude, but I know when someone's joking around, and hurling around epithets about glorying-holing at Neighbors is actually derogatory, especially when used to attack someone who is an out and out straight person, yet because they dress a bit "Capitol Hill"(?). if you don't like someone, there are plenty of creative ways to make fun of them with calling them a bitch. I think one of the reasons why I never gave myself over to metal entirely is because I couldn't reconcile the ignorance and hate that comes hand in hand with it, so I err to remain punk or whatever. and I still think Burzum is amazing.

anyway, it has nothing to do with being condescending toward someone to call them out on their homophobic crap (well maybe it does, but its deserved). and I'm suprised that in a gay-friendly newspaper like the Stranger, you chose to write "Wanna prove to Stranger readers that you don't have enough experience to be a music editor? Keep up the posts like this one" in response to those actions. this isn't MRR, its real life and I think Stranger readers want someone writing in it who reflects their values a bit.

Posted by "Lee" | February 20, 2008 4:50 PM

god, eric grandy has to be the whiniest mf of all time. stop bitching and get over it. nobody cares, it's not even news, let alone music news. people don't like you because you literally copy and paste shit from pitchfork and try to pretend that you are hip and cutting edge. it's pathetic and fucking lame. i personally hate you because i've been backstage at events where you and your snotty cokehead friends do act like the hipster trash assholes you claim not to be. your music "writing" is joke, and you're a terrible dj.
BUT, fuck the homophobe assholes who are attacking you for dumb shit. god knows you give 'em enough fuel without them having to make shit up.

Posted by eye roll | February 20, 2008 4:51 PM

Neurosis? come on, they turned into drum-circle hippies back in the early nineties. Kinda like going to the Circle Jerks show earlier this month, you know it was gunna suck but you went to hear the classics (and hopefully saw one of the members break their pelvis in the process)

Posted by bobcat | February 20, 2008 4:55 PM

"BUT, fuck the homophobe assholes who are attacking you for dumb shit. god knows you give 'em enough fuel without them having to make shit up."

Thank you! That's what I'm saying. Now to go do some more coke and plagiarize Pitchfork...

Posted by Eric Grandy | February 20, 2008 4:58 PM

aww, Eric, why didn't you invite me to that event Eye Roll saw you at, man? that sounded like supremely fun times!

the new Neurosis shit slays, dude. it's not Pain of Mind or Souls at Zero, but its not going to see the Circle Jerks either. I think the drummer in my band said it best when describing them as our generation's Pink Floyd. I hate Pink Floyd so much you could drip that on pancakes, but it makes sense: some bands get better with age.

Posted by "Lee" | February 20, 2008 5:11 PM

Bobcat wrote:

PS: Heavy Metal Parking Lot is not 'rock and roll', it is a ironic look at a certain demographic of knuckledraggers outside a Metal show that occurred more than 20 years ago.

Bullshit. Heavy Metal Parking lot is exactly what's is fucking great about rock n roll, and more importantly metal!

Getting totally wasted and acting like a supreme douche-tard? Shit, son to me that's the greatest thing about metal. The ability to not take one's self so serious while sporting a mullet and leopard-print pants is exactly what metal is about.

Now back to the cocaine and DJs. That too is some fun stuff!

Posted by I'm a Nuclear Bomb | February 20, 2008 6:06 PM

So what is fine line demarking 'rock n roll' and 'metal' then?

Bon Scott dying in his own vomit?

Jimi Hendrix dying in someone elses vomit?

Mama Cass choking on a ham sandwich?

Zebra boy from Heavy Metal Parking Lot saying that "Madonna. Shes a dick. That punk shit.. that shit belongs on Mars, man!"

Hall and Oates shaving their moustaches?

Chris Holmes from WASP in Decline of Western Civilization 2 guzzling a bottle of vodka then throwing it at his mother?

Krist Novoselic throwing his bass up in the air, only to have it bash him in the head making a politician?

Posted by bobcat | February 20, 2008 6:20 PM

Lee/#24: You misunderstood me... I was only addressing Eric's broad sweeping statement, it kinda called all the rock bands he doesn't cover in The Stranger homophobic, misogynist, etc. It seemed condescending to all of us, rather than being aimed at the couple anonymous jerks from the other thread.

Posted by dan10things | February 20, 2008 7:21 PM

Dude. I haven't seen this much Grandy-hate since the Atlas debacle!

To echo what others have said, you're obviously very enthusiastic about the music you cover (which is good!), but I wouldn't say that you cover the same capital-R rock that Jennifer Maerz or Hannah Levin did when they were writing for the Stranger.

I, too love The Thermals and Les Savy Fav (probably the most rock bands on that list), but I don't think they qualify as capital-R rock music the same way, say, The Jesus Lizard or the MC5 do. I know Seling's column touches on a lot of that stuff, but it's often the size of a postage stamp, and is more about the all-ages scene in general than any specific genre.

Perhaps The Stranger could add a music column for capital-R rock music? Just from the dudes hanging out in your office, I'm sure Kirby or Nipper or Kelly O could do a decent job. It doesn't even have to be about big-tits-and-hot-rods dumb rock, just y'know, music with loud guitars. Seems like it would keep some more of your readership happy, and it would free you up to write more about some of the stuff that you're obviously enthusiastic and passionate about without fearing more "Douchebag/Scenester/Cokehead" backlash.

I mean. Think about it.

Posted by James | February 20, 2008 8:38 PM

I think folks want well rounded coverage from a paper and maybe want the personality of the editor to exemplify that - someone brought up Maerz, and as her shortlived intern I was into the wide stylistic net she cast. That said I thought Dave Segal wrote really great articles about the coolest shit and he had a much narrower range in terms of what he chose to write about. I would say write about what you know best, but make room in what is now your section for all the noteworthy bands that Seattle has to offer... even if it feels a little affirmative action at times.

Posted by Dude | February 21, 2008 12:03 AM

I never said "just as bad", I said just as pointless. I told you to stop being a little baby and stand up by ignoring the crap. If you don't want comments, block them, if they are breaking the rules ban them, but if you allow discussion, then sit back and take it. We AREN'T in grade school.

I like the quotes around your summary of my argument, just like a Stranger writer to take a quote out of context and twist it for his own argument.

Posted by drheavy | February 21, 2008 9:23 AM

News flash for Dr. Heavy:

Stranger writers aren't the only writers that take quotes and use them for what you might consider out of context.

Try any paper, anywhere.


Posted by Meat | February 21, 2008 12:32 PM

totally right 'meat'

sometimes in between using CTRL-C and CTRL-V when 'researching' other music blogs they might put something out of context.

Posted by bobcat | February 21, 2008 2:08 PM

Grandy, stop being such a whiny little bitch. Jesus christ, it's no wonder people fucking hate you. Just let your war with rock music end.

Just because you're a sniveling geek, don't take your anger out on the rock community. It was here in Seattle WAY before you dragged your goofy ass here, so if you don't like it, go back to nerdville.

Fuck, I wouldn't be surprised if you're stock-piling weapons to "get back" at all those mean, evil rockers, for teasing you.

You scare me, quite frankly.

Posted by God | February 21, 2008 3:52 PM

wow, God, that was some impressive, level-8 Mage-powered sarcasm.

Posted by "Lee" | February 21, 2008 4:37 PM

From the crap I've read that Eric Grandy pushes every week, I'm certain that he is not qualified to be the music editor at the Stranger. He has proven time and again that he doesn't know shit about the music scene here, let alone the music industry in general. While I understand he's trying to "do his thing" and be able to "break the mold," what he doesn't realize is that he's a really bad music editor.

He needs to stick to writing reviews on his own personal blog and stay the hell away from real publications where somebody might accidentally think he's qualified to have opinions.

On a side note, this is actually the lowest point I've seen the Stranger. It used to actually have both a vagina and it just has an ass.

Posted by Scott | February 21, 2008 11:51 PM

Eric, I've commented before on the idea that you sometimes slack on covering rock. But I've always appreciated the fact that you've always had a Himsa review or some similar band printed in The Stranger right after I say something. I actually understand your very "Olympia-style" stance on rock. That's part of our NW legacy. And I hope that parts of that philosophy always maintain a voice in local music media.

I also think one of the smartest/funniest statement you've ever written was the "Grunge is dad!" retort you wrote. Me and you went to a lot of the same shows in our teens, so I respect where you come from with your opinions.

But I hope to everthing that rock stays juvenile. Sure, I'm totally down with the aging Sonic Youth style intelligent rock. Who isn't? But I'm sick of people's parents showing me their Pearl Jam cd's. Grunge is dad, but that doesn't mean that rock has to be.

I poke fun at your myspace quote, but I know deep down that it's sarcastic. You nailed it with your recent TacocaT review, and (Though I wished you could've given a shout-out to TacocaT's song "Muffin Top" which is an original of their's, and totally hilarious. :)It's smartly written stuff like that that makes me wish you'd flex your rock knowledge more often.

Posted by godsactionfigure | February 22, 2008 2:45 AM

The low brow late school moron Seattle punk Eric mostly and wisely criticizes is exactly what got me into quality deep soul, acid folk, pop-psychedelia, R&B-loved reggae, and other less banal stuff. I loved going to Fall-Out for the zines and books and reissues; but most of what Russ had to play overhead to get the Ten Things readers to buy I couldn't stand. Sorry, Dan.

Posted by Chris Estey | February 22, 2008 7:10 AM

What I find funny is that Eric takes this pompous attitude toward rock music, as if he is "above" it. The fact is, he's just as fucking juvenile and moronic as the people he makes fun of. I've seen him out at places and he acts like a total idiot...for lack of a better word, "douchebag" seems to fit very well. And he calls rockers moronic?

As stated before by others, I also feel that he is not knowledgeable enough about music in general to have an effective opinion of it. The Stranger would do well to get a real music editor that has better knowledge of the local music scene, not just what Eric and his friends play at their parties.

Posted by dukey | February 22, 2008 8:49 AM

Ha, ha ha Chris, that cracks me up. But I think to some extent you are presenting the same attitude Grandy does that people find annoying - the somewhat snobby idea that the "quality" music you listen to is better than that punk and rock stuff. And the truth is, it's not better, music is totally subjective based on personal taste. And a song like Mudhoney's "In'n'Out of Grace," which I first heard at Fallout when Russ played it, can be insanely better TO ME than deep soul, acid folk, or pop-psychedelia song. And deriding the music you don't like, rather than promoting the music you do like, is not the sign of a seasoned music editor. Nor is broadly calling all the music you don't like misogynistic, homophobic or macho.

And I do have to give a shout out to Russ, Tim, Wez, Paula, Janet etc. for the music they used to play at Fallout, since you mentioned it. While you might not have dug it, I first heard Sicko, Gas Huffer, Mudhoney, Tad, Bikini Kill, Mukilteo Fairies, Bloodhag, Nirvana, The U-Men, Skin Yard, Coffin Break, The Gits, 7 Year Bitch, Undertow, the Accused, Poison Idea and tons of other "low brow" local rock and punk bands because they were playing them in the store way before anyone cared or knew about these bands.

Posted by dan10things | February 22, 2008 10:59 AM

Hey Eric,

You don't mention any rock bands in that list. When is THE STRANGER gonna fire your faggot ass!

Posted by Real Rock Bands Have Cool Names | February 22, 2008 2:01 PM

Hey Eric,

You don't mention any rock bands in that list. When is THE STRANGER gonna fire your faggot ass!

Posted by Real Rock Bands Have Cool Names | February 22, 2008 2:01 PM

Dude, Say what you say and stand behind it or don't say it all. Ok so you think rock and the punk scenes are made up of a bunch of moronic knuckle draggers? That's your opinion . . as fucked up and ill informed as it may be. As far as I am concerned your assessment of Jenny was off base, but hell it has given her (a friend) and the other bands you mentioned (Rain City Shwillers) great publicity. BTW, the drummer probably makes three times as much as your lazy ass ever will with a real job and I know several other band members with great jobs and real degrees, despite your assessment of them as moronic knuckle draggers.
I say check King Cobra out. If it is worth its weight it will thrive and if not it will crash and burn, but regardless of what it does I will stand behind those friends I have (Even the moronic ones) regardless of what you say and what happens to KC. At least I'll have good friends at the end of the day.

Posted by Matthew McSheehy | February 22, 2008 2:36 PM

I think it's kind of ignorant of people to say that Eric has no knowledge of music. I can say that that point is just not true.

Like a lot of "music-people" he has his preferences, and specialties when it comes to music. But when Eric was given his own column I thought it was one of the best things the Stranger had done.

Whoever edits music at The Stranger had better know local music inside and out, and I think Eric Grandy has been the most qualified and knowledgeable local music person the magazine has ever had since Everett True over 12 years ago. Why?

Because I've seen that guy at shows for years and years. Because he was going out to shows and clubs 4-5 times a week *before* he had his job. And most Stranger writers just don't do that.

Posted by godsactionfigure | February 22, 2008 3:06 PM

@46: I don't think Eric explicitly said all punk bands and rock bands are knuckledraggers despite what you and Dan think. I've known Eric for a long time and that is by far not his take on things. his real point (and it's pretty valid) is that the music fronted by the people that were calling him a "fag" or a "bitch" isn't the type of music he wants to be associated with, for those exact attitudes. it has nothing to do with thinking bands like Mudhoney or TAD are low brow, and I wonder where the concept that he did got that far, save besides people's general bias against Eric and assuming they know what he's "into". the bigger question is: why is it Eric's job to write about certain bands he has no interest in promoting? as fun as it is to listen to WASP or the Mentors or fuckin' Old Dirty Bastard, there's not exactly a lot of content there and it's not like those bands are around now doing anything original (yes, I know some of them are dead). and furthermore, why would he write about new local bands that would do nothing more than rehash that shit? it's been done before and there's not a whole lot of improvement. I'm not on his dick about this either, there are plenty of bands that I think Eric should give a chance but I know it's not gonna happen

why Eric is going to be an effective music editor for this paper (remember, he's only been doing this for about a month) is that he's interested in artists that are taking music in new places, he is aware that the lines between rock and eletronic music are becoming more blurred and he wants to explore that. I'm afraid the truth is that a lot older people are threatened by that fact, because it contradicts what they are comfortable with.

(another reason why you can't expect the Stranger to dump him is everytime some douche flips out about what he writes, Dan Savage and Chris Frizelle are giving each other some fat high fives in the boardroom for hiring such an effectively polarizing editor. they're into that shit).

oh yeah, and if you weren't busy sticking your head up your ass, you'd have notices Eric has already been to King Cobra, and wrote about it fairly favorably.

Posted by "Lee" | February 22, 2008 4:00 PM

@ 44: Fire his "faggot ass"? Seriously? Grow up.

As for not listing rock bands, the Thermals, among others listed, rock like all hell. Were you hoping to find KISS or Slayer on the list?

Posted by Jasen Samford | February 22, 2008 4:16 PM

Lee man, you've gotta bone up on your reading comprehension skills. My comment about Mudhoney was to my zinester pal Chris in response to his post about the the music Russ used to play at Fallout. I was quite specific in who I was addressing, it had nothing to do with anything Eric said.

But if you're right about Eric's real point, it sure as hell wasn't clear. He came off very condescending, and I'm certainly not alone in thinking that. Maybe it's because you know him and are being generous. I can only judge the guy by what he's written. I'm DJing one night at King Cobra next month, I invited Eric to come DJ with me, I'd love to meet him in person, spin with him, and hear what music he thinks rocks. I hope he takes me up on it.

Posted by dan10things | February 22, 2008 5:07 PM

i'm gunna go grab some popcorn and a beer from the fridge. This is getting entertaining. Anyone want somethin while i'm up?

How about a warm glass of shut the hell up?

Posted by bobcat | February 22, 2008 5:07 PM

yeah, this thread has graduated on to page 2. let's let it die. I'm gonna go get crunk in about 30.

Dan, I knew you were addressing the other dude, but I also knew it loomed part of a larger arguement. we all know that we're not knuckle draggers, but I think sometimes we err on the wrong side. it's not like we're the ACLU trying to defend Nazis or anything, it's okay to have standards.

Posted by "Lee" | February 22, 2008 5:23 PM

OK fuck. You got a good point about a lot of those bands, Dan. Half of 'em transcend the typical sound with great songs. I'm getting a bit senile, and DAMMIT I miss Fall Out even if I only bought old Flesheaters and Poison Girls records there anyways (besides all the other really cool shit I still own) ... proving I just had weird fucking tastes in punk, too.

Wilum Pugmire and I had lunch the other day. We're seriously threatening to start a band. You should join, Dan ...

Posted by Chris Estey | February 22, 2008 5:32 PM

"Wilum Pugmire and I had lunch the other day. We're seriously threatening to start a band. You should join, Dan"

Wow, I haven't seen Wilum in a long time. Wilum is waaay more old school of a Seattle music writer than even an old fart like me. Most of the younger-than-30 folks here aren't gonna remember him, but his zine Punk Lust was a nationally well-known punk zine in the '80s (possibly '70s?). I remember picking it up at Time Travelers downtown in the early-80s when I was like 14 and being floored. That guy had insane balls! He wore Boy George make-up on the streets of Seattle and to punk and hardcore shows back when you'd get get the shit beat out of you or knifed for looking weird and punk rock. He out-freaked everyone. Say hi for me if you hang out with him again. He used to send me great letters back in the early '90s when we were both doing zines and people still wrote letters instead of email.

Lee - I'm sure we are totally on the same page about shitty lyrics and people. I'm super PC in practice, yet have an anti-PC attitude, kinda like Biafra, Rollins and most '80s punx. And I still love bands like totally un-PC bands like The Dwarves and The Diesel Queens. I don't understand or defend homophobic comments, but I will say this, there's no need for dudes to wear girl pants now that their are super skinny guy's Levi's. That's my fashion tip of the day.

Posted by dan10things | February 22, 2008 7:10 PM

Eric Grandy you are a idiot who knows nothing about Rock music. First of all You should pay attention to REAL Seattle Rock music righters like Guitar Doug from The Sinner who rights about REAL SEATTLE ROCK bands. And he's a GAY GUY and he rights about rock bands so if he doesn't think its a problem than why do you? Why are you even the music righter for The Stranger you suck you should be fired.

Posted by seattlerock | February 22, 2008 8:08 PM

Forget about rock. Let's work on English. The comment above should read:

"Eric Grandy, you are an idiot who knows nothing about Rock music. First of all, you should pay attention to REAL Seattle Rock music writers, like Guitar Doug from The Sinner who writes about REAL SEATTLE ROCK bands. He is a GAY GUY, and he writes about rock bands, so, if he doesn't think it's a problem, then why do you? Why are you even the music writer for The Stranger? You suck, and you should be fired."

Grammar and punctuation aside, the syntax is horrible. The use of the phrase "first of all" implies the beginning of a list of some sort, but the author makes only one statement. Said statement either implies that it is unusual or unexpected for a gay man to write about rock music, or that Eric Grandy should come to terms with his own homosexuality. Knowing Mr. Grandy to be a heterosexual, I can only assume the former to be the author's intention. Frankly, I am not at all sure what the "it" in "if he doesn't think its a problem than why do you?" is referring to. Rock writing? Homosexuality? The world may never know.

The entire entry of misspelled words, bad grammar, and run on sentences reads like a first grade book report.

I give it a D-.

Posted by Jasen Samford | February 22, 2008 11:11 PM

Shut up your probly one of Eric Grandy's friends, anyway let me spell it out for you dumass. Eric Grandy is an idiot who dosen't know anything about Rock Music and can't right as good as Guitar Doug from The Sinner. Eric Grandy says that Seattle Rock is full of people who hate Gay people. Guitar Doug is a GAY GUY who rights about Rock music in Seattle so if he thinks that righting about Rock isnt a problem and he is Gay then why should Eric Grandy. Do you get it idiot?

Posted by seattlerock | February 23, 2008 7:30 AM

No, I do not get it. Eric said that he doesn't think that rock "has to be homophobic, misogynistic, or macho." Your argument appears to be that gay Guitar Doug writes about about homophobic bands, so Grandy should too. That is absurd.

Getting back to your first grade writing skills:

Learn to use punctuation. Learn the difference between "your" and "you're". Learn the difference between "right" and "write". Dumbass has a B in it. You should have stated that Eric doesn't write as "well", not as "good".

If you're going to post slanderous and hateful comments in a public domain, you should at least try to appear to be educated when doing so. Otherwise, you just come off sounding like a moron.

Posted by Jasen Samford | February 23, 2008 1:52 PM

Mr. Grandy,

Exactly what is your issue with King Cobra? In fairness, I did see that after questioning the qualifications of those that run the club that you wrote something nice in your column about it shortly thereafter. But the sentiment rang hollow after what seemed like an unfair attempt to turn people off from the venue before it even opened.

I suspect the belated niceties may have had something to do with perhaps backpedalling from something that could possibly cause a new stream of advertising revenue to vanish. As print is a dying medium, it seems unwise to piss off a group of folks who may have a hand in ensuring you continue to get paid to voice your opinions in print.

But let's forget about any potential advertising fall out, or bad will you seem to incur on a regular basis. What I find offensive is your generalization of not only what you feel defines King Cobra's clientele, but anyone who is a fan of harder music in general.

For the most part, The Stranger, Seattle Weekly, both local dailies, The Sound, and several other regional publications offer little to no coverage of a large part of the local music scene. I'm not just talking about hard rock and metal either.

No, sir - though they may seem insignificant in your world, bands in those styles, as well as rockabilly, punk, any style that ends with the word "core", and several others are marginalized by the so called "alternative" music press. Even bands and musicians that served to create the very scene you and your colleagues are paid to expose are often ignored.

Oddly enough, two low budget monthly magazines - Underground and The Sinner cover far more of the bands that are entertaining the residents of our fair city. These two publications, while certainly not without their flaws, expose their limited readerships to a far greater breadth of styles of local music than their better financed and more established peers.

But that's all academic at this point. As I stated earlier, my issue is with your generalizations about fans and purveyors of "leather jacket, etc" Rock and Roll.

First off, anyone with any knowledge of rock history knows that Rock and Roll, while having taken several detours through the years, WAS intially deliberately juvenile and anti-intellectual. The term "Rock and Roll" was just period slang for fucking, and the songs were often either thinly veiled sexual come ons, or odes to the sex they weren't getting.

Other early rock songs had little more to say than, "A WHOMP BOP A LOO BOP A WHOMP BAM BOOM." Yes - Bob Dylan and many others eventually upped the sophistication level. But rock music at it's core has always been about having a good time with your friends, trying to get laid, and a pulsating back beat that enables one to shut off their brain and shake their booty.

You are right when you say rock music doesn't have to be homophobic, misogynistic, or macho. If you knew your rock history, you would realize that though there are surely rampant examples of these attitudes in rock, there have been a rather large number of homosexuals that have become rock icons. Elton John. Rob Halford. Joan Jett. Freddie Mercury. Little Richard. Melissa Etheridge. That's not even counting the bisexuals, like Janis Joplin, David Bowie, etc.

The truth is that rock music isn't about gay or straight, political correctness, or social change, contrary to what the Michael Stipes and Bonos of the world might have you think. It's about losing your inhibitions and having fun. Where I see the disconnect between your (and some of your colleauges') writings and what many (far more than I think you realize) in Seattle find fun is your marginalization of bands and venues either by writing a slam piece or completely ignoring them. As a result, I feel you and your colleauges are doing a grave disservice to both local bands and music fans alike.

In closing, I would like to just add that despite the lack of press that Rock and Roll is alive and well in Seattle. There are many great bands that the local press is either unaware of, or chooses to ignore as they don't fit into some narrow, indie snob box. On a regular basis, I attend shows that pack rooms of all sizes despite zero attention from the local music press. Imagine how well these acts would do with a little love from the hometown media!

I also marvel at how some local acts that have achieved a certain level of notoriety worldwide still seem to fly below The Stranger's radar. This can only be attributed to one of four sources - laziness, style-snobbery, incompetence, or malice. Regardless, Seattle is only getting part of the picture of what comprises its music scene.

For these reasons, as well as many others, I and many other fervent participants in the Seattle music scene remain disgusted.


Rocky Bukkake

Posted by Rocky Bukkake | February 23, 2008 4:31 PM

Guitar Doug is gay? Really? Did anyone tell him that?

Posted by Rocky Bukkake | February 23, 2008 8:48 PM

Eric Grandy you are a idiot who knows nothing about Rock music. First of all You should pay attention to REAL Seattle Rock music righters like Guitar Doug from The Sinner who rights about REAL SEATTLE ROCK bands. And he's a GAY GUY and he rights about rock bands so if he doesn't think its a problem than why do you? Why are you even the music righter for The Stranger you suck you should be fired.

Posted by Eric Grandy | February 23, 2008 10:58 PM

Whoops, sorry, I accidentally pasted what I posted before into the reply box and hit post.

Posted by Eric Grandy | February 23, 2008 11:02 PM

Does Guitar Doug's girlfriend know that he's gay? I think this news is gonna surprise both of 'em.

Posted by psychdlc | February 24, 2008 11:52 AM

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