How about a laptop and a soft synth?

Here's a great free synth with a neat sound:

www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/basic64/

(inspired by the 8 bit sounds of the classic Commodore 64)

Library Science isn't buying any more keyboards unless they are CASIOS!

The Ion and Micro really excel at different things, regardless of what the feature list reads like...

I'd go with the MicroKorg if I wanted:
- simplicity. there aren't a ton of presets or patch space, and the synthesis engine is typical of a subtractive virtual analogue... which in dork means "easier to wrap your head around."
- a "sexier", classic looking instrument with wooden panels.
- simple, usable presets that work for rock, techno, whatever. Especially good organs and bass patches.
- really easy to use, straight forward vocoder.
- an awesome arpeggiator.... one of the best I've ever used, in fact.
- pretty close to analogue sound; the low-end is especially impressive.

I'd go with the Ion if I wanted:
- drums. the MicroKorg can do drums, too, but the Ion already has a huge bank of em pre-programmed in.
- bigger keys. the Korg's keys are really easy to fat-finger.
- a TON of presets.
- a thinner, brassier, more "digital" sound.
- a crazy level of flexibility when used with a computer patch editor.
- weird features. the Ion can do sounds the Korg just can't.
- a synth you don't really edit or make new patches with. (good and
bad, I suppose)

(for the record, I've owned both the MicroKorg and Ion... but I've kept onto the Korg)

Stupid question #1

Arpeggiators. Do they automatically synch to the drum tempo?

If I use an external drum machine, how do I synch them up?

Both of these synths can sync to MIDI Clock, so yes, they can sync to a drum machine (assuming it's not super ancient)

if you're looking at getting something new, ball up and buy a real analog synth like the moog little phatty. if you're buying anything that models an analog synth, buy a laptop and a usb controller. you'll get WAY more bang for your buck, and there's a lot of great modeling software out there. my favorite is the arturia stuff.

Here's a pretty good demo of what the Micron can do.

Having the built in drums/sequencer is def. a huge bonus, but the Korg does seem to have deeper bass-heavy sounds.

i think the microkorg is more fun to play and easier to use - anyone can muck around with the presets and knobs to get a nice sound. the micron, those easy, takes a little more sound building knowledge imo. both are good entry level synthesizers, much better than what would have been available 10 years ago.

i would NOT decide on which one to buy based on drum sounds. drum sounds on entry level keyboards are shit. absolutely go with a dedicated drum machine, sampler (korg es-1?), or a laptop... or a live drummer.

i second >5 animals at night's comment, and hasten to add that Native Instruments makes some of the coolest soft synths, modelers, and plug-ins, etc on the planet. their shit consistently blows me away. buy one analog synth then get the komplete suite for yr computer and you will be tweaking steady til next thanksgiving and beyond.

the drums on the Micron are synthesized (and can be tweaked as such), while the drum sounds on a sampler or drum machine are samples. So in that sense, its a question of what you want... there's no "better", just different

I talked to the guys behind the Moog Cookbook for my site, and they recommended:
Roger Joseph Manning, Jr:
* The MiniMoog (or the Moog Voyager, the one available today, which is, according to Roger, a Hot-Rodded Minimoog)
* Yamaha CS-80
* Jupiter 8
* MemoryMoog

Brian Kehew:
* Octave Cat
* Moog Opus 3
* Alesis Andromeda

Both of 'em go into more detail on each of those interviews -- it can get pretty synthgeeky, but then, I AM a synthgeek, so it was totally up my alley, but yeah. And these guys should know. Roger's interview is at: http://kittysneezes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=204:interview-moog-cookbook-pt-2-roger-joseph-manning-jr&catid=20:interviews&Itemid=29

And Brian's is linked there in the first paragraph. For some reason the friggin' commenter won't let me post both URLs. Maybe it'll just let one through?

And, here's the direct link to Brian's Interview, if that'll work:
http://kittysneezes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=203:interview-moog-cookbook-pt-1-brian-kehew&catid=20:interviews&Itemid=29

if you're serious i recommend the roland juno 106.

A. it's good enough for countless producers and been on thousands of records so you know it's good enough for you.
B. stable and built well
C. will keep it's resale value, if not go up.
D. has midi so it can sync to drum machines
E. it's easier to program than micro or micron and great for learning subtractive synthesis on.
F. they still go for about the same price as a new microkorg.

the only drawback i can see is that it doesn't have an arp, but if you're triggering it via midi(which you will eventually), you'll likely program your arps anyway.

if you just want to goof around get a micro.

You should consider a korg ms-2000. It utilizes the same sound engine as the microkorg but it has a fullsized keyboard and a much better layout. It has dedicated knobs for most parameters, which translates to easier programming and better live tweakability. The only drawback is that they've been discontinued so you'd have to buy used. They pop up frequently on ebay and craigslist and they usually sell in the range of the microkorg/ion.

Something like a jp-8/memorymoog/andromeda would give you true analog goodness and more flexibility, but then you're looking at $2,000-3,000 rather then $300-400.

trent, if you could elaborate on what the use of the synth would be, there could be some better suggestions. there is a lot of great input, but all of it is seemingly for general use. for instance, the andromeda is a great unit, but i would not recommend it for a live gig nor would i recommend it for hip-hop production. i LOVE my juno 106, but i would not recommend it for typical use with a rock band - it does well with pads, but is not very good with realistic sounds (eg: piano, organ).

little help to help further?

That is true, Cosby.

I contacted our synth quester to get some clarification.

I think he should go with Atari. The 2600 is the best. Specifically, 'Tank'.

I have been fooling around on an ancient Yamaha keyboard that has auto bass and chords. Which is kind of like a ghetto arppegiator if you think about it.

Mostly I wanted a step up from that. I am a synth beginner so the high-end stuff is really way out of my league.

I want something easy to operate and easy to learn on.

The Korg and the Alesis are in my $$$$ range.

Agree w/ 12 and 13. Also, if you get some b-day cash the Nord Lead is pretty amazing and easier to find for sale than a Juno 106.

word.

i will cosign on the juno 106 then. if you are a novice and want a synth that is easy to program, yet can achieve great sounds with work, then this is a good pick. like truckasaurus said above, the microkorg and micron have limited parameters to work with so you are kind of stuck with their soundset (which, in my opinion, is solid, but you could always want more). the 106 has a good number of sliders that warp sounds well.

one drawback is the size. the juno is mid-sized and quite heavy for its size. also, it is no longer in production, but relatively easy to find on ebay or in second hand instrument stores. the price may be $400-$600 depending on demand and how resourceful you are in tracking it down.

for a few bucks more, you could always get a roland sh-101 and start your boards of canada cover band...

Play them both and decide which one you like best?

The Korg is sort of a toy version of a Moog. A lot of people use and like them. But the Micron is compact and easy to use, so it just depends on what sounds he wants.

I agree with #13. When I was first looking into buying a synth the MicroKorg and Micron had just come onto the market.

I would like to trade or sell my Korg MS2000 for something with good grand piano and rhodes sounds.

Any ideas?

ericwick@gmail.com

synthesizers are so different from each other that one cannot be recommended without knowing what sound you are looking for. just think: they are more diverse than guitars. you've got the equivalent of everything from acoustic guitars to bass guitars recommended above. but how are you going to play it? what sort of music? poly or mono? midi or vintage?

the microkorg is a great starter synth. the drums on the micron will require a bit of work if you want them to sound like your own (as mentioned about, it'd probably be better to use something else for drums -- but even that depends on the sound you are looking for). the MK can run on batteries!

both are cheap and small. the MK is used often in popular music, so it is not that unique, but is certainly tested. you can get into programming the micron... but are the type who will sit down to sculpt a sound?

if you email me what sort of music you want to create, how you are going to play the keyboard, what sort of sounds you are looking for, i'd feel better about making a recommendation.

mostsynth(at)yahoo[dot]com

Thank you all for this thread.

Synthgeeks unite!

It also depends how much you know about how synths work.

Do you want to program your own patches from scratch?

Do you just want to use presets and maybe tweak them a bit?

Do you want use the synth basically like a keyboard instrument in a common rock-band-like set-up (lead guitar, bass guitar, drums, vocals, and keyboard) or for hip-hop, or techno or what?

Do you want to the synth as you main instrument and create awesome electronic techno tracks or floating ambient worlds of sound?

Fortunately all synths whether they are analog, digital, or software work on the same basic principles so once you learn one you can kind of play any of them.

There are differences of course, and different manufacturers seem to label common functions universal to all synths with their own secretive, exclusive, often non-intuitive terminology.

Differences between synths sort of fall into three broad categories:

1. essential features - what can it do, how does it make the sounds it makes, how easy is it make the sounds you want.

2. optimisation for specific uses - i.e. what synths will be the most useful or most convenient for certain types of musical styles or certain types of performance environments (live vs. studio, accent instrument vs. lead).

3. price

Most synths in the low-end of the price zone (such as the Micro-Korg and Ion) provide the basic waveforms, envelope generators, and modulation sources common to all synths. They each have some extra features, but all of what they do is crammed into an economy-sized package, which has some limits to more creative possibilities.

While the Roland Juno 106 has some "classic analog synth sounds", it is significantly limited in its programming features (and thus in what sounds it can make and how easy it is to make them). I don't recommend it for synth beginner for that reason. It is a great niche instrument, though.

The korg MS 2000 wouldn't be a bad first synth (I have one), and the fact that it is designed as an "analog modeling" synth will help a person learn the sound design principles and methods that analog synths (and thus all other synths) were built on.

I might check out some very basic books on how synthesizers make sounds, such as "What's a Synthesizer?" by Emile Menasche (available from Amazon.com for under $5 including shipping). Very basic, but if you have no understanding of how synths operate it can get you started.

Another one at Amazon.com (or maybe an updated version of the other book) is "What's a Synthesizer?: Simple Answers to Common Questions" by Jon F. Eiche and Emile Menasche.

Ulimately I second what infomatik geoffrey (post 22) said - he needs more information before a reliable recommendation can be made.

Just going from what's posted on this Line Out slog, my best two cents is to get a free download of a simple software synth that simulates the basics of how analog synths work. That assumes you have some kind of computer available with access to the internet.

Playing around with a free download softward synth can get you some experience with the basics of how synths operate and make their sounds, which will then put you in a better position to choose from the variety of synths out there on the market.

Ultimately you are going to learn about synths by playing around with one - no amount of reading can replace that. Like any instrument, the understanding comes from spending time with it. Only then will you begin to know what you want in a synth.

Thank you all. Such good responses. Praise gear.

I got cut off on my previous post, anyway I looked at both the Microkorg and the Micron, then I bought a used MS2000 just for the ability to use the knobs.

Since that I have bought a Micron that I used for a year and sold. The Micron had drums, was easy to program, and sounded good, but I could never get used to the placement of the Mod Wheel and sliders and only having three knobs became a hinderance. I loved the feel of the keys and the size it took up in my set up. I found I never used the drum sounds in the end.

After I sold the Micron I bought a Nord Modular. Great if you want to tweak your own sounds. Its like a Nord Lead on steroids. It also has drum sounds and a sequencer for making drum loops. I soon traded down to the Nord Micromodular, just for size reasons and I did'nt need all the power of the full size.

In the end it all comes down to what you think you will use. Software based samplers and synths are nice, but hardware is fun as well and I like being able to go to a show with my MS2000 and a looping pedal, or my Micromodular and an FX pedal and nothing else if I want to. On the flip side I have also done shows with only my laptop.

Hardware is more tactile, while software is more mental.

Drop by www.vintagesynths.org and search "Micron versus MicroKorg" in their forum and read to your heart's content.

I've owned both a Micron and a MicroKorg. They are both fine instruments for different reasons. The MK is very portable, battery-powered and it just looks like a synth is supposed to. The Micron is ugly, but I liked it under the hood better than the MK. Twice the polyphony, better keyboard action and better analog synth emulations. I have owned a variety of analogs (including ones from Roland, Oberheim and Moog that I still own) and I feel the Micron/Ion synth engine gets closest to it.

I would say for roughly the same amount of money as a new MK or Micron you can buy a used PIII laptop, a decent soundcard and a MIDI controller and go to town with the amazing world of free (and cracked) VST technology. After all, both the Micron and MicroKorg are pretty much VST's anyways. www.kvraudio.com has tons of free VST's and hosts.