Thursday, December 4, 2008
??!! Captain Beefheart & the Magic Band = The Three Stooges of Music?
Posted by Dave Segal on Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:26 AM
I ask this question because a female friend recently responded to my posting the link to a video of Beefheart’s “Bat Chain Puller” [see below] in my gmail contact thingy with an instant message of “ugh, beefheart.”
Made me realize that I know very few women who like Don Van Vliet and his group of nerdily magical musicians. Made me think: What is it about Beefheart’s music that turns off the fairer gender? Is his art strictly the province of males, many of whom worship the man with a religious fervor? Is Beefheart’s music the sonic equivalent of The Three Stooges TV show? (Any women want to rep for that?)
Much of Beefheart’s output is like Howlin’ Wolf-style blues mutated into a proto-No Wave knottiness. There’s a uniquely riveting ugliness to much of the Captain’s work (see especially Trout Mask Replica, Lick My Decals Off, Baby, Shiny Beast, and Doc at the Radar Station) that is practically the antithesis of an aural aphrodisiac. But he also wrote some genuinely beautiful songs (see much of Clear Spot, Safe as Milk, and “Kandy Korn” off Mirror Man) and penned some fairly traditional blues numbers that express a fondness for womenfolk, albeit in Van Vliet’s decidedly surreal, unconventionally romantic language. For example, “I’m Gonna Booglarize You Baby” [see video below] is downright sexy, if a bit threatening, but, hell, that implied threat is partially what made the performances of bluesmen like Howlin’ Wolf, John Lee Hooker, and Muddy Waters so thrilling.
So, readers with XX chromosomes: Why don’t you like Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band? Or if you do, tell us why they push your buttons. Guys: Do you know any ladies into Beefheart? Or are his records banned from the turntable/CD deck/MP3 player when you’re in mixed company?
“Bat Chain Puller”
“I’m Gonna Booglarize You Baby”
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1
My wife loves Captain Beefheart. And I think a certain freelancer with the initials KF who pops in here does too.
Now, the other day I was hanging out with a lady who loves Zappa. That kind of blew me away. Professional respect prevents me from even dropping a hint on that woman's identity.
Now, the other day I was hanging out with a lady who loves Zappa. That kind of blew me away. Professional respect prevents me from even dropping a hint on that woman's identity.
2
I have no love for Beefheart or Zappa. For me, it's the lack of any sort of melody. It's just a big wankery sausage fest. That being said, I do enjoy some of Robert Pollard's weirder side projects that are continuations of the Zappa/Beefheart ethos. The Pollard-led Circus Devils albums are very, very weird, but with actual melody and thoughtful lyrics. I don't know if it's a female thing or if it's just better than the influences. I would definitely say Beefheart et al is interesting and influential, but I don't think it perfected or even approached the conclusion of the amalgamation of what he was aiming for. His entire body of work is simply experimentation, no follow through.
3
victor hayden: fast and bulbous.
don van vliet: that's right, the mascara snake. fast and bulbous. also a tinned teardrop.
victor hayden: bulbous also tapered.
don van vliet: that's right.
beefheart is amazing, interesting and impressive but i dont think id put it on no matter what company im entertaining.
don van vliet: that's right, the mascara snake. fast and bulbous. also a tinned teardrop.
victor hayden: bulbous also tapered.
don van vliet: that's right.
beefheart is amazing, interesting and impressive but i dont think id put it on no matter what company im entertaining.
4
Women don't like Zappa, Beefheart, or Yes. Men don't like Celine Dion or Abba. And everybody hates Menudo. It's just a thing.
5
@4:
My wife loves Zappa & Yes. Na so much Beefheart. I on the other hand have enjoyed a select few Abba singles--"S.O.S" being the best song they ever recorded. We both HATE Celine Dion.
When I first exposed her to Zappa, it took her a while to get over her perception of mysoginism in his lyrics. She now sees, or rather hears the satire. I myself was having some issue recently with my own perceived homophobia at some of the lyrics of "Valley Girl." It took me reading the CD liner notes to get over that one.
And @2:
Lack of any sort of melody?????? You haven't listened to much Zappa, I must say.
One of my most memorable Beefheart experiences was putting on "Trout Mask Replica" during an Acid party. Good times!
My wife loves Zappa & Yes. Na so much Beefheart. I on the other hand have enjoyed a select few Abba singles--"S.O.S" being the best song they ever recorded. We both HATE Celine Dion.
When I first exposed her to Zappa, it took her a while to get over her perception of mysoginism in his lyrics. She now sees, or rather hears the satire. I myself was having some issue recently with my own perceived homophobia at some of the lyrics of "Valley Girl." It took me reading the CD liner notes to get over that one.
And @2:
Lack of any sort of melody?????? You haven't listened to much Zappa, I must say.
One of my most memorable Beefheart experiences was putting on "Trout Mask Replica" during an Acid party. Good times!
6
My mom played me my first Beefheart and Zappa albums. My mom is cool though. I probably wouldn't put Beefheart or Zappa on unless in the company of music nerds male or female. It's not about the lyrics anyway.
8
Women don't like Zappa, Beefheart, or Yes.
I went out with a woman who was learning to play Yes' "Mood for a Day" on an acoustic guitar. She never did master it, sadly.
I went out with a woman who was learning to play Yes' "Mood for a Day" on an acoustic guitar. She never did master it, sadly.
10
i would venture to say that most people who listen to beefheart are music nerds and most music nerds are male, but there must be a few stray women out there that listen to beefheart against all odds.
i can't say that i've ever known anyone in real life that was a vocal beefheart fan. if you follow the same reasoning above: most people who listen to beefheart are music nerds, music nerds are the most vocal and vitriolic commenters to the web, and thus beefheart gets a lot of shine on the web (the same way that celine dion packs tacoma domes but no one will defend her on a message board).
i can't say that i've ever known anyone in real life that was a vocal beefheart fan. if you follow the same reasoning above: most people who listen to beefheart are music nerds, music nerds are the most vocal and vitriolic commenters to the web, and thus beefheart gets a lot of shine on the web (the same way that celine dion packs tacoma domes but no one will defend her on a message board).
11
I've played "Diddy Wah Diddy" out at bars and had women absolutely go batty. Of course they're always drunk, and are usually hearing something they vaguely recognize for the first time in 10 songs... but still, women, loving Beefheart.
I'd like to add that CF's "Diddy Wah Diddy" is one of the best sounding, base thumpingest, 45's from the 60's.
I also know a lot of women that like Yes. "Wacky" shit, like Zappa, I haven't noticed much female affinity for - probably because most people don't enjoy listening to some dude trying to outsmart music.
I'd like to add that CF's "Diddy Wah Diddy" is one of the best sounding, base thumpingest, 45's from the 60's.
I also know a lot of women that like Yes. "Wacky" shit, like Zappa, I haven't noticed much female affinity for - probably because most people don't enjoy listening to some dude trying to outsmart music.
12
never really got too into beefheart. love yes. love abba. hate celine. male, but gay. how does that factor into the hypothesis?
13
Good question, Brian@12. I have at least a few gay friends who dig Beefheart's music. But they also qualify as über-music nerds.
14
Well, I'm a woman and I love both Captain Beefheart and Yes. CB is genius! Scary album covers, odd album names, earthy blues... and a weirdness that's strangely sexy. But I'm a music nerd. Go figure.
15
You called it, Mr. Estey. I love Beefheart to death--and all the Stooges, too (and Alice Cooper, while I'm at it). And I've always had a soft spot for pre-Tales from Topographic Oceans Yes. But then, I tend to think I'm more old than nerdy. I'm not down with most Zappa, but even amongst us non-fans, the man deserves his propers for spreading the word about Van Vliet and fighting the good fight for free speech.
16
I hardly think you're old, Kathy (chronologically or in taste), but I do think we were raised in a time that even when you were into fresh new bands you still checked out quality album rock by older artists with fervent, lingering, somewhat non-mainstream fan-bases. To stay tied in, to not miss anything, because there wasn't so much that was interesting you couldn't keep an eye on most of it. And yeah Zappa did help Beefheart, and put out at least a couple great records and a smattering of good songs career-wise. I was a bit too flippant above. To back Shrie, one will find that any sort of rock and roll that seems a little dangerous, has a mysterious vocabulary in song names, etc., and adds the "earthy blues" at the heart of rock, might start off with mostly boys in the basement but always end up appreciated by gals with good ears as well.
17
Well said, Chris. And you've given me a new topic of inquiry, i.e. pop music that starts off mostly with girls (pictures tacked on bedroom walls), but ends up appreciated by boys with good ears as well. Think that's sometimes the case with the overly-pretty, sensitive, or brooding types, like Scott Walker.
18
Wow! Yous a-getting esoteric here. Scott Walker? I've never met any women that even know who he is, let alone appreciate his music. I'm sure that the Walker Bros. had their share of groupies back in the day, but have you ever listened to "Tilt?" C'mon!
19
The Walker Brothers were originally marketed as a boy band, Fillip. Way back in the 60s, and even during their mid-70s revival (old boy band?). That's what Kathy's referring to. This is the same sort of confusion that occurs when I buy Bee Gees albums from the 60s for their lush psychedelia and the clerk asks, "You like disco?" And off topic "Tilt" is one of my favorite songs of the 90s (wish I loved the full album more).
22
Now who's confused here Chris? Even Scott Walkers's 60's stuff sounds nothing like the Walker Brothers.
Oh, and my mention of groupies was a direct reference to the Walker Brothers heart-throb appeal. I personally wouldn't use the term "boy-band."
And where do you shop for CD's? Any store that stocks 60's era Bee Gees albums is likely to have staff that know they're not jus' a disco band. Pick a better example next time.
Thanx!
Oh, and my mention of groupies was a direct reference to the Walker Brothers heart-throb appeal. I personally wouldn't use the term "boy-band."
And where do you shop for CD's? Any store that stocks 60's era Bee Gees albums is likely to have staff that know they're not jus' a disco band. Pick a better example next time.
Thanx!
23
What's weird is that I was buying Bee Gees VINYL (so there, pal) at Satisfaction here on the Ave, and the clerk is old enough and probably experienced in music history enough to realize that the Bee Gees didn't start out disco. Go figure. Maybe he was being a dick or something.
I stand by my statement that the Walker Brothers in the 60s were meant as a boy band. Boys seemed so much older then (they're younger than that now). And the Walker Brothers and 60s Scott Walker aren't entirely far off either (though the latter certainly did things for the former would never attempt, obviously).
Any more of this back and forth and we start dueling "Best 5" lists of albums, etc. a la Hornby.
I stand by my statement that the Walker Brothers in the 60s were meant as a boy band. Boys seemed so much older then (they're younger than that now). And the Walker Brothers and 60s Scott Walker aren't entirely far off either (though the latter certainly did things for the former would never attempt, obviously).
Any more of this back and forth and we start dueling "Best 5" lists of albums, etc. a la Hornby.
24
Dave, is there any chance that your friend's comment "ugh, beefheart" was actually a vegan joke, indicating a lack of love for, not experimental music, but the inner organs of beasts?
And it was a woman who told me to buy Trout Mask Replica way back when, because she thought I'd really like it.
And it was a woman who told me to buy Trout Mask Replica way back when, because she thought I'd really like it.
25
Not to get technical, but there is a bit of overlap in sound between the later Walker Brothers productions and the early Scott Walker albums. Songs like Archangel, Mrs. Murphy and Orpheus are pretty indistinguishable from the tracks off Scott 1 or 2 Plus Scott continued to record pop standards [albeit in his completely over-the-top way] on his solo albums. So, it's more of a Walker-ish continuum with Scott [and his arrangers] at the helm.
As for Beefheart, Zappa and the feminine mystique, I've dated women who dug both. In fact, one of my first girlfriends copied my cassette of Lick My Decals Off, Baby and believe-it-or-not, we once 'did it' to Baby Snakes.
No, the thing I've always wondered is why every Mothers of Invention fan I've met despises the Velvet Underground and every Velvets fan hates the Mothers. It's like a zero sum game between Lou Reed and Frank Zappa. Am I the only one who appreciates both?!
As for Beefheart, Zappa and the feminine mystique, I've dated women who dug both. In fact, one of my first girlfriends copied my cassette of Lick My Decals Off, Baby and believe-it-or-not, we once 'did it' to Baby Snakes.
No, the thing I've always wondered is why every Mothers of Invention fan I've met despises the Velvet Underground and every Velvets fan hates the Mothers. It's like a zero sum game between Lou Reed and Frank Zappa. Am I the only one who appreciates both?!
26
For the few who are still reading this post:
@24: Ha. No, she was expressing her distaste of Beefheart's music.
@25 I like the Mothers/Zappa and VU/Reed and I know at least a handful of others who do, too.
@24: Ha. No, she was expressing her distaste of Beefheart's music.
@25 I like the Mothers/Zappa and VU/Reed and I know at least a handful of others who do, too.
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