Tuesday, December 16, 2008
Media / Love / Teh Internets Need Help Reading the Stranger Music Section?
Posted by Eric Grandy on Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:46 AM
In regards to this, TV Coahran writes:
I'm bored. there are good shows happening and there are amazing local bands forming all the time. if i want to know whats up with britney spears and fall out boy, ill subscribe to teen people.im only bitching because the stranger could do a lot to turn people on to new/local/interesting/old/obscure music, but instead spin their wheels musing about chinese democracy. fuck it
TV, and any other readers who may be having trouble here, let me take you by the hand and direct your attention to the music section of this week's Stranger, where you'll find coverage of such new/local/interesting/old/obscure music as:
XBXRX frontman Vice Cooler's sexually explicit teen liberation electro punk act Hawnay Troof
Crazy Californian health food cult/psych band Ya Ho Wha 13
Dave Segal's favorite album, a 1971 prog-jazz headtrip by a band you'd probably never heard of before
Local indie stalwarts the Long Winters
Up & coming locals the Dutchess & the Duke
Midwest acid house king DJ ESP
The return of Seattle rap crew Clockwork
A remix from French trio Minitel Rose
So, yeah, pretty much all wheel-spinning about Chinese Democracy and Fall Out Boy.
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1
Well- that might be some coverage of whats going on locally, but I think what TV and what almost everyone else who didn't bid on music review type auctions in strangercrombie are trying to say is that the stranger is not a source of info on local stuff anymore. Years of nepotistic back-scratching the cap hill, grand foxes pwer crap has taken a heavy toll on the stranger's cred. Really, there are tons of shows that don't get mentioned and lots of amazing bands that haven't been mentioned even though they are doing amazing things.
The fact remains that in between crappy dance music and awful passive-aggresive beard rock lies tons of local happenings. Those local happenings are not covered.
Getting mad about critics is not going to help. Just start covering this city again instead of the hip stuff and the stranger will get its reputation back. Until that time i still won't care about this paper.
The fact remains that in between crappy dance music and awful passive-aggresive beard rock lies tons of local happenings. Those local happenings are not covered.
Getting mad about critics is not going to help. Just start covering this city again instead of the hip stuff and the stranger will get its reputation back. Until that time i still won't care about this paper.
3
"Years of nepotistic back-scratching the cap hill, grand foxes pwer crap"
Well, I don't think that's 100% true, but I will admit that sometimes it has felt that way. And this is coming from someone who likes the grand foxes pwer crap.
Well, I don't think that's 100% true, but I will admit that sometimes it has felt that way. And this is coming from someone who likes the grand foxes pwer crap.
4
@2
So anyone who doesn't like the stranger's music section must be in some band looking for revenge?
you are such a weasley motherfucker.
So anyone who doesn't like the stranger's music section must be in some band looking for revenge?
you are such a weasley motherfucker.
5
Fair enough, grandy. this has gotten a bit off course from what i was saying in the first place though (spears, fallout boy, gnr get enough national press. extra publicity and coverage from local rags, positive or negative, seems really pointless).
i dont hate the stranger. if i did i wouldnt be on the blogs. i might hate eric grandy though. his mocking tones and quotation bold really wind me up
oh, and my band, BROKEN KNIVES, is playing tonite at the high dive
jk, im not in that band
i dont hate the stranger. if i did i wouldnt be on the blogs. i might hate eric grandy though. his mocking tones and quotation bold really wind me up
oh, and my band, BROKEN KNIVES, is playing tonite at the high dive
jk, im not in that band
6
I'm just pissed that the Peruvian flute band that plays every day in Westlake Center NEVER gets any love from the Stranger.
Hardest working band in Seattle!
Hardest working band in Seattle!
7
@5: Should the film section ignore films not shot in Seattle? Should the book section not cover international authors? Should Slog not comment on stories from the New York Times, because said stories have gotten plenty of national coverage already?
8
I get it! I get it!
Just write articles like the one on the Microphones and go see B. Spears yourself. Then tell us all how lame we are for not taking the time to give her any credit for reinventing herself or taking her music seriously.
Grandy you are better than the hack you have become.
Just write articles like the one on the Microphones and go see B. Spears yourself. Then tell us all how lame we are for not taking the time to give her any credit for reinventing herself or taking her music seriously.
Grandy you are better than the hack you have become.
9
Hey, everyone: Keep 'em peeled for my Up&Coming blurb on Tv Coahran in next week's paper. Paradigms will be shifted. I'm serious—well, at least about the Tv Coahran coverage; maybe not so much about the paradigm-shifting.
14
Britney's better than these Seattle bands you're not covering. And the Stranger has ALWAYS had terrible, terrible music coverage; it's arguably better now than at any point in its history (except for the brief, erratic reign of Everett True).
16
i have been to a lot of different cities on the eastcoast, westcoast, and midwest this year.
I check papers in almost every single city, and I have to say the Stranger/Portland Mercury has the BEST local coverage. it's a good balance of local and touring national bands here because they are not writing specifically for struggling local artists but also for general readers who would appreciate more choices.
I check papers in almost every single city, and I have to say the Stranger/Portland Mercury has the BEST local coverage. it's a good balance of local and touring national bands here because they are not writing specifically for struggling local artists but also for general readers who would appreciate more choices.
17
Teen People? Teens aren't listening to Britney Spears or Fall Out Boy in 2008 -- maybe they were half a decade ago, though...
On a side note, what is this? Like another Slog, only for the boring, dead local music scene?
On a side note, what is this? Like another Slog, only for the boring, dead local music scene?
18
Eric Grandy is infamous for single handedly closing local venues because he didn't like them.
Eric Grandy does not care about Seattle people.
Eric Grandy does not care about Seattle people.
19
not alternative enough, try harder.
i hear lindy west is debilitatingly alternative -- to the point that it actually prevents her from liking movies about sailboats. maybe you could ask her for tips?
i hear lindy west is debilitatingly alternative -- to the point that it actually prevents her from liking movies about sailboats. maybe you could ask her for tips?
20
@18 Wait, what?
Yeah, Eric can single-handedly close venues he doesn't like. And pigs can fly. And my cock shoots liquid gold when I ejaculate. Get a grip, man.
Yeah, Eric can single-handedly close venues he doesn't like. And pigs can fly. And my cock shoots liquid gold when I ejaculate. Get a grip, man.
21
All you people that whine constantly about The Stranger's music coverage should really consider starting your own zine, blog, magazine or newspaper. Put your money, time and work where your mouth is and create your own medium for promoting the music, bands and shows you love, rather than expecting someone else to do it for you.
24
you can also read other fine local music mags like:
seattle sinner
underground magazine
seattle sound
seattle sinner
underground magazine
seattle sound
25
Are you guys really so sensitive to a couple of comments about Britney? I mean, if you're really interested in her, outside of the mainstream/alt/whatever continuum, write about it. You're never going to please everyone all the time, especially in a whiny town like this one.
26
Hey, I just wanna say I like Britney Spears as much as the next guy. I think what TV Coahran is bitching about is the lack of original voice coming from the Stranger's music section (read: Eric Grandy) which used to be so clear and ringing. Just the same ole unanimously critic approved band from Grandy. The Stranger used to write about and search out new shit, "new shit" meaning bands that I had not heard of in the last 104 issues of the Stranger (read: long winters) or awesome bands that 90% of local music lovers already know are fucking awesome from going to shows (read: dutchess and the duke).
To make myself clear: Dutchess and the Duke fucking rule and its great they are getting good press from your paper now that the entire country knows them and likes them. Too bad you couldn't be there before the record came out... Here's a show review from Dj Fucking Lazy Bones on May 13, 2008: "They are just fine live... Part garage psych, part dispirited folk, all glum and Seattle gray" He finally concludes with: "Either way, their songs are subtly insistent enough to at least half remember hungover" Note: Their name is misspelled Duchess and the Duke throughout. These kind of errors are easily solved by spending 30 seconds checking out a band's myspace page.
Point being: get someone who actually likes music, goes to shows, searches shit out etc. Let me hold you hand: search Jennifer Maerz in your archives. With myspace, and all the music info the internet holds I don't need help from DJ Lazy Bones to figure out the Long Winters blow. I need an original voice.
Fuck Grandy.
ps I only write cause I care. Fix this problem.
To make myself clear: Dutchess and the Duke fucking rule and its great they are getting good press from your paper now that the entire country knows them and likes them. Too bad you couldn't be there before the record came out... Here's a show review from Dj Fucking Lazy Bones on May 13, 2008: "They are just fine live... Part garage psych, part dispirited folk, all glum and Seattle gray" He finally concludes with: "Either way, their songs are subtly insistent enough to at least half remember hungover" Note: Their name is misspelled Duchess and the Duke throughout. These kind of errors are easily solved by spending 30 seconds checking out a band's myspace page.
Point being: get someone who actually likes music, goes to shows, searches shit out etc. Let me hold you hand: search Jennifer Maerz in your archives. With myspace, and all the music info the internet holds I don't need help from DJ Lazy Bones to figure out the Long Winters blow. I need an original voice.
Fuck Grandy.
ps I only write cause I care. Fix this problem.
28
you all need to shut the fuck up. grandy has no agenda, and the stranger is not whatever you want it to be. he's one man trying to go to shows and listen to shit and he's got good ears and is smart and can write and y'all are assholes.
29
PS:
go rent the wire season 5, watch the "do more with less" newspaper speech, rinse, repeat, and feel bad that grandy has to not only do his job but also deal with you assholes.
and yes, you are in a band. you are all in bands. don't pretend you're not. and all your bands are bad.
go rent the wire season 5, watch the "do more with less" newspaper speech, rinse, repeat, and feel bad that grandy has to not only do his job but also deal with you assholes.
and yes, you are in a band. you are all in bands. don't pretend you're not. and all your bands are bad.
32
@28 pull your head out of erics ass. He doesn't go anywhere further than Pitchfork.com and Nuemos/Chopsuey.
33
@29 I'd have to watch seasons 1-4 first. i think its pretty low on my netflix though. ill get back to you
"Rockists, poptimists, mainstreamers, alts—let's do this, people."-Eric grandy
He goaded, and im trying not to be an asshole
"Rockists, poptimists, mainstreamers, alts—let's do this, people."-Eric grandy
He goaded, and im trying not to be an asshole
34
@28
Grandy is the one posting this shit on the slog for discussion. The Stranger and Grandy would be wise to take some criticism because the Stranger's music section has become irrelevant
Grandy is the one posting this shit on the slog for discussion. The Stranger and Grandy would be wise to take some criticism because the Stranger's music section has become irrelevant
35
I have to agree with 28. I used to comb the music listing every week but now I go elsewhere. Line out has been helpful (thanks all) for last minute show notices, but to stick to the point: Stranger = not a good source for my show going interests.
ps - my interests are awesome. read: i'm not a hippy.
ps - my interests are awesome. read: i'm not a hippy.
36
@33: It's true, I did write that. But neither you nor anyone else has actually answered the question: what makes alternative vs mainstream (if the Stranger isn't "alternative" enough) a useful analytic framework?
Instead, you just said "the stranger could do a lot to turn people on to new/local/interesting/old/obscure music, but instead spin their wheels musing about chinese democracy." So I pointed out with this post everything we'd done in this week's issue alone to do just that.
Then you changed your argument to something about how national acts don't need coverage from local publications. So I asked if you felt the same standard (don't cover anything that gets coverage in national publications) should hold true for our film section, our books section, or slog.
Then you shrugged.
Not quite the critical discourse I meant when I said, "let's do this," people.
Instead, you just said "the stranger could do a lot to turn people on to new/local/interesting/old/obscure music, but instead spin their wheels musing about chinese democracy." So I pointed out with this post everything we'd done in this week's issue alone to do just that.
Then you changed your argument to something about how national acts don't need coverage from local publications. So I asked if you felt the same standard (don't cover anything that gets coverage in national publications) should hold true for our film section, our books section, or slog.
Then you shrugged.
Not quite the critical discourse I meant when I said, "let's do this," people.
37
@34: the stranger is the only relevant pop music section in town.
it could be better, but as it is, it's the best we have.
it could be better, but as it is, it's the best we have.
40
..I'll have to agree with #37.
I can't remember the last time I read about a band who hadn't been covered already by the Stranger in the Seattle Weekly (usually months+ later too). Not that that should be a marker for how good or deserving the band is, nor am I arguing the actual quality of the writing in another.
I could read a 6th graders write up of a musician and get the message.
I can't remember the last time I read about a band who hadn't been covered already by the Stranger in the Seattle Weekly (usually months+ later too). Not that that should be a marker for how good or deserving the band is, nor am I arguing the actual quality of the writing in another.
I could read a 6th graders write up of a musician and get the message.
41
I can't remember the last time I've read about a band in The Stranger that wasn't hyped by Pitchfork first.
42
@41: Off the top of my head: Talbot Tagora, Past Lives, Partman Parthorse, Grand Archives (back when they were just Archives—in the Stranger a week before pitchfork).
43
@42: or Helms Alee, Akimbo, Book of Black Earth, and Hemingway to name a few others. We reviewed the latest Torche record four months before Pitchfork decided that it was worthy of some praise. Perhaps people are only bothering to read about the bands that they've already already read about in Pitchfork.
so if the music section is irrelevant, why are people reading and commenting on this thread?
so if the music section is irrelevant, why are people reading and commenting on this thread?
45
@44: You win the race, dude (though not the reading comprehension contest). I was just noting that the Stranger covered them without them having been "hyped by Pitchfork first."
46
We're commenting because Grandy is a pompous asshole who insists on talking down to everyone. This ain't "High Fidelity", dude. You talk about discourse but the only thing you're concerned with is being "right" (by your own, ever-changing definitions). In short, nobody likes you and nobody cares about what Chop Suey band you're currently blowing and/or doing cocaine with. You're a shitty writer, ugly as fuck, and at best, you are the David Silver of Seattle. Now go fuck yourself.
47
Eric, I agree.
I can count a ton of bands (mostly local) that you guys cover before Pitchfork, but here's the rub: That's your job. Pitchfork doesn't advertise themselves as "Seattle's Only Newspaper."
I'll concede, I think you do it very well.
However, My point was that PMPH had been busting their ass for 2 years right under your nose before anyone, not just you, decided to write about them.
Not whether you guys take walking orders from Pitchfork.
I can count a ton of bands (mostly local) that you guys cover before Pitchfork, but here's the rub: That's your job. Pitchfork doesn't advertise themselves as "Seattle's Only Newspaper."
I'll concede, I think you do it very well.
However, My point was that PMPH had been busting their ass for 2 years right under your nose before anyone, not just you, decided to write about them.
Not whether you guys take walking orders from Pitchfork.
48
This makes me pine for the days of Kathleen Wilson. The current Stranger music editorial staff makes her look like Robert Christgau in comparison. What a difference a decade makes. Oy.
49
same for seattles sorely overlooked rock n' roll and punk scene. You fail for missing out on bands that shed blood sweat and beers. Quit hyping bullshit hipster beard bands and white boy rap... and for gods sake RAVE SUCKS
51
@49 & 50:
i guess that ultimately depends on what you consider to be "punk." i would argue that Partman Parthorse, Talbot Tagora, Black Eyes and Neckties, and Past Lives are all punk bands, and by extension, rock n' roll bands. do we really want to dredge up the whole mid-'90s MRR debacle about establishing perimeters on punk music?
i guess that ultimately depends on what you consider to be "punk." i would argue that Partman Parthorse, Talbot Tagora, Black Eyes and Neckties, and Past Lives are all punk bands, and by extension, rock n' roll bands. do we really want to dredge up the whole mid-'90s MRR debacle about establishing perimeters on punk music?
55
For all of you commenting, complaining on the lack of local music coverage in town, I myself was one of the first to review Feral Children's EP plus give them one of their first interviews, one of the first to cover: Arthur and Yu, the Old Haunts, Joy Wants Eternity, Past Lives, Sleepy Eyes of Death, KRGA; given one of the first interviews to: New Faces, the Last Slice of Butter, Levi Fuller, the Cave Singers; audio recorded interviews for play on an online radio station throughout all of Carousel Festival this year with the likes of Joules, Kimya Dawson, Kusikia, Champagne Champagne, plus audio coverage throughout Georgetown Music Festival. Those are just the bands who are now actually talked about in the Stranger, not even mentioning the totally deserving bands I've covered who are snubbed by the higher up outlets.
...Yet I haven't seen any one beating down my door to congratulate me on actually bringing coverage to little known bands. I think the real issue here isn't that you guys are upset you don't have an outlet for great up and comers, it is that you want to bitch at the city's whipping boy aka the Stranger and everyone hates Grandy. Admit it, you guys don't give a fuck about actual local coverage or you would actually be seeking it out and giving readership and listenership to the media outlets and music writers who are working to bring you local coverage of the little bands.
...Yet I haven't seen any one beating down my door to congratulate me on actually bringing coverage to little known bands. I think the real issue here isn't that you guys are upset you don't have an outlet for great up and comers, it is that you want to bitch at the city's whipping boy aka the Stranger and everyone hates Grandy. Admit it, you guys don't give a fuck about actual local coverage or you would actually be seeking it out and giving readership and listenership to the media outlets and music writers who are working to bring you local coverage of the little bands.
56
#40-Seattle Weekly is a totally different paper nowadays. These are bands and stories broken by them way before the Stranger:
The Pleasureboaters
Grand Archives
Arthur and Yu
Emmanuel "Vinny" Miranda (the Johnny Cash kid)
John Spalding/Loveland
Monotonix
See Me River
Pierced Arrows
Pissed Jeans
Yo Majesty
The Moondoggies
Zach Harjo
Slim Carroll
Team Gina
Betty Davis
Croc trouble and closure
And their annual music festival books ONLY local bands, unlike the Strangers. Them's the facts.
The Pleasureboaters
Grand Archives
Arthur and Yu
Emmanuel "Vinny" Miranda (the Johnny Cash kid)
John Spalding/Loveland
Monotonix
See Me River
Pierced Arrows
Pissed Jeans
Yo Majesty
The Moondoggies
Zach Harjo
Slim Carroll
Team Gina
Betty Davis
Croc trouble and closure
And their annual music festival books ONLY local bands, unlike the Strangers. Them's the facts.
57
I completely agree with "just saying."
When Dave Segal wrote about Ya Ho Wa 13 I was excited to read the article because I'd been walking by Wall of Sound for months when the band's Penetration album cover was in the window, and I had never heard of them but they looked insane and I wanted to know more.
That's the kind of coverage I'd like to see more of at the Stranger. Generally most of the bands written about weekly are local and national acts I've already read about in the Stranger or other papers/music sites.
I feel like your paper has the attitude that if a band's not already being written about, it's because it sucks. You play it safe and cover what you know people already like rather than introducing people to anything new for fear that it won't be popular. That's fine for some papers, but not for ones that consider themselves alternative. I don't want to read a Brittany Spears review in an alternative paper just like I don't want to hear her on KEXP, regardless of whether she's good or you like her. It's the wrong place.
When Dave Segal wrote about Ya Ho Wa 13 I was excited to read the article because I'd been walking by Wall of Sound for months when the band's Penetration album cover was in the window, and I had never heard of them but they looked insane and I wanted to know more.
That's the kind of coverage I'd like to see more of at the Stranger. Generally most of the bands written about weekly are local and national acts I've already read about in the Stranger or other papers/music sites.
I feel like your paper has the attitude that if a band's not already being written about, it's because it sucks. You play it safe and cover what you know people already like rather than introducing people to anything new for fear that it won't be popular. That's fine for some papers, but not for ones that consider themselves alternative. I don't want to read a Brittany Spears review in an alternative paper just like I don't want to hear her on KEXP, regardless of whether she's good or you like her. It's the wrong place.
58
I have to say I agree that the Seattle Weekly has better music coverage, though in every other dept. I tend to prefer the Stranger. One thing that really sold me on this was the Reverb fest that the Weekly threw which was 60 something local bands (many of them amazing, and many of them Stranger darlings like the Moondoggies. And, yes, I'm in a band that played).... over 60 local bands playing in one day and the Stranger completely ignored it. I know the Weekly is a competitor (although the Stranger absolutely has the edge), but we're talking about the largest (by far) all local Seattle music festival and not a mention. That's just bad journalism. It bummed me out because I do think that the Stranger should be more responsible because let's face it, it's generally the only paper most people (certainly everyone I know) read to find out about the local music scene, it's a shame when it sacrifices good journalism to pettiness and laziness, but what are you gonna do? Write a blog comment I guess. It's still a better paper than most.
59
Can I just say that I don't want to *only* hear about new, up-and-coming bands? I'm a bit slower and less cool than most of you Lineouthards and I might still want to hear about a band that the rest of you discarded last year when "everybody else started to like them, man".
The balance of the Stranger's coverage probably isn't perfect, but let me be a small voice for people who might not care for the bleeding edge of bands-you've-never-heard-of-before all the time.
The balance of the Stranger's coverage probably isn't perfect, but let me be a small voice for people who might not care for the bleeding edge of bands-you've-never-heard-of-before all the time.
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