Thursday, June 18, 2009
News / Gossip Holy Mountain Visited by WSCLB, Now on Hiatus
Posted by Dave Segal on Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM
Holy Mountain, an art space/warehouse venue in South Lake Union known for its adventurous booking policy (Black Dice/Wolf Eyes, Past Lives, Talbot Tagora, etc.) and aesthetics, recently received a visit from the Washington State Liquor Control Board, which told the all-ages club's owners to cease selling beer and allowing smoking indoors. Consequently, Holy Mountain has stopped hosting shows until its organizers decide whether they want to continue throwing events without booze and smoking.
We have a call into the venue's residents. Stay tuned for more info.
UPDATE: A Holy Mountain organizer responds: "None of what you wrote is true. I don’t know who you talked to. We don’t even really do shows anymore. The Liquor Control Board never visited us. For the last four or five shows that we did do, we didn’t allow smoking or alcohol inside at all. We're not sure whether we're going to do shows anymore."
I heard about the WSLCB's visit to Holy Mountain from three separate sources, none of whom hold any antagonism toward Holy Mountain. I have a call and an email in to the WSLCB and will report what I hear as soon as they respond.
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1
That place had a pretty good run. When you run an all-ages speakeasy that sells beer to minors you are begging for trouble.
That it lasted this long is pretty amazing.
That it lasted this long is pretty amazing.
4
Especially given that they were booking national tours with their own publicity and press releases (I could drag up press releases from Black Dice's PR, So Many Dynamos', and more, all listing the name Holy Mountain), but they still wanted to keep the venue's name out of print. Difficult!
7
I don't think the board sits around going through local weeklies or going through touring bands' press releases checking out venue names to make sure each is registered and shit. Not unless the press specifically talks about how it's "a secret", or until enough people are going that it's pretty obvious what is going on. Considering it is right between TWO bars, it was bound to happen eventually.
8
Dave, why did you post this? Slow day at the office or do you just feel it your civil duty to create speculation about a situation you obviously have no clear understanding of? Beyond this being relatively old news (that is, the news of Holy Mountain shutting down), the information you have provided here is no better than gossip heard in the hallway of a middle school. Can you even provide a reliable source for this information? Please, don't be so lazy and try to gather substantial evidence before you decide to expose our city's already fragile DIY scene.
9
#6 - I've been trying and trying, but can't figure out a way to pin this one on Grandy. Oh well. Little help here?
11
Not only are these statements false, this is another pathetic attempt to stir up attention for publicity, and will ultimately get the venue shut down for good. If the Stranger wants to be a part of the DIY scene go to a show for gods sake and talk to the residents and don't print local gossip that has little truth in it.
Including Atlas Clothing the score is Stranger 2 Seattle DIY 0. If you want to have any respect from the community you should pull this news post immediately.
Including Atlas Clothing the score is Stranger 2 Seattle DIY 0. If you want to have any respect from the community you should pull this news post immediately.
12
Hey Seattle DIY community activist (Steven Segal),
If you think serving alcohol and liquor to underage kids is a positive element for the DIY scene then I have news for you:
YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
Look, I loved going to shows at Holy Mountain, but alcohol brings the heat.
Don't want to get shut down? Operate a dry-venue. There was a reason why places like the Punkin House survived for so long.
You're welcome.
If you think serving alcohol and liquor to underage kids is a positive element for the DIY scene then I have news for you:
YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
Look, I loved going to shows at Holy Mountain, but alcohol brings the heat.
Don't want to get shut down? Operate a dry-venue. There was a reason why places like the Punkin House survived for so long.
You're welcome.
14
I think an all ages venue selling crack has a far better chance of surviving in Seattle than a *licensed bar* selling alcohol.
When will the Liquor Board members croak and die already?
When will the Liquor Board members croak and die already?
15
The Stranger has been incredibly, perhaps overly deferential to Holy Mountain's desire to maintain a low profile and keep their name out of print, even when they were doing shows that it would have been ridiculous for the paper to not cover (eg. for Black Dice, per Holy Mountain's request, we directed readers to the band's website rather than listing a location, even though it put all of one mouse click's worth of secrecy between the venue and the Man). And even with the venue having it both ways—booking high profile shows while still demanding secrecy—they still attracted the attention of the authorities. A visit from the WSLCB is totally newsworthy, and it means your clubhouse is no longer any kind of a secret if it ever really was. Would removing this post (which we're not going to do) undo the visit and make the authorities forget you guys exist? Good luck with that.
16
Jeff, I agree with the idea of selling alcohol to minors is really unbelievably stupid, but for the Stranger to be there when the ship goes down is stupid on the Strangers part. It just pisses off all the musicians / show goers in this town.
I know for a fact that the statements in this post are false from someone who does actually live there, which is my main point. It just reminds us that the Stranger is more about gossip than news.
I know for a fact that the statements in this post are false from someone who does actually live there, which is my main point. It just reminds us that the Stranger is more about gossip than news.
17
"I heard about the WSLCB's visit to Holy Mountain from three separate sources, none of whom hold any antagonism toward Holy Mountain. I have a call and an email in to the WSLCB and will report what I hear as soon as they respond"
Dave, come on now. This is not a good excuse for your poor choice on deciding to post this. I respect you as a writer but find your overwhelming lack of judgment on this to be somewhat destructive to your integrity as a journalist. Be man, suck it up, admit that you acted in haste, and delete this thread.
"A visit from the WSLCB is totally newsworthy, and it means your clubhouse is no longer any kind of a secret if it ever really was"
Eric, while I agree that such a visit is newsworthy, there is no proof that the visit ever happened - BECAUSE IT NEVER DID. Get your facts straight. The 'clubhouse' remark is choice. Real classy.
Dave, come on now. This is not a good excuse for your poor choice on deciding to post this. I respect you as a writer but find your overwhelming lack of judgment on this to be somewhat destructive to your integrity as a journalist. Be man, suck it up, admit that you acted in haste, and delete this thread.
"A visit from the WSLCB is totally newsworthy, and it means your clubhouse is no longer any kind of a secret if it ever really was"
Eric, while I agree that such a visit is newsworthy, there is no proof that the visit ever happened - BECAUSE IT NEVER DID. Get your facts straight. The 'clubhouse' remark is choice. Real classy.
18
Dave,
At the very least you should have named these three sources.
You didn't and they burned you. Unless you can get someone at the WSLCB to go on record your kind of losing this battle.
At the very least you should have named these three sources.
You didn't and they burned you. Unless you can get someone at the WSLCB to go on record your kind of losing this battle.
19
Classic Stranger: Get the "scoop" 3 weeks late, with completely bogus information.
Ha ha ha ha.
Tards.
Haha ha.
Ha ha ha ha.
Tards.
Haha ha.
21
Eric Grandy used to go over to the Holy Mountain and sell PBR tallboys to minors. And as soon as his stock was depleted, he would contact Dave Segal on an unregistered cell phone, who would then phone in anonymous tips to the WA LCB. Megan Seling would take pictures.
See, Grandy is trying to run every DIY venue out of Seattle, because writing for the Stranger has made him drunk with power. He is a madman, and must be stopped.
Also: he doesn't care about black people.
See, Grandy is trying to run every DIY venue out of Seattle, because writing for the Stranger has made him drunk with power. He is a madman, and must be stopped.
Also: he doesn't care about black people.
22
No, it's cool man. Lizard face Grandy can justify anything he does... like doing writeups for punkhouses in the paper, blowing out all ages spots and being a fucking douchebag of the year.
23
"And even with the venue having it both ways—booking high profile shows while still demanding secrecy—they still attracted the attention of the authorities. A visit from the WSLCB is totally newsworthy, and it means your clubhouse is no longer any kind of a secret if it ever really was."
Except the HM people are saying it never happened and you are printing gossip, rather than fact. And to add onto it, The Stranger has a "call and an email in to the WSLCB and will report what I hear as soon as they respond"... uh, so if the WSLCB wasn't looking at Holy Mountain already, you just told them to. Great job!
Except the HM people are saying it never happened and you are printing gossip, rather than fact. And to add onto it, The Stranger has a "call and an email in to the WSLCB and will report what I hear as soon as they respond"... uh, so if the WSLCB wasn't looking at Holy Mountain already, you just told them to. Great job!
25
You ever think that maybe the Holy Mountain just didn't want THE STRANGER to write about them?
Also, Atlas was a "dry" venue, and "someone" managed to get them shut down, too.
The Stranger really needs to learn the boundaries with these DIY spaces. It's not your DUTY to write about any band. The only reason it would be "ridiculous" not to cover certain bands is because then you wouldn't seem "on top of it," and we all know the only thing you're on top of is the pile of coke in the Cha Cha bathrooms. (Lame cheap shot, couldn't resist.) But seriously, leave these venues out of the paper. Let their shows be spread by word of mouth like they are supposed to. And if you HAVE TO write about them to make sure you don't fall behind on scene points, start a personal blog or something lower-profile.
Also, Atlas was a "dry" venue, and "someone" managed to get them shut down, too.
The Stranger really needs to learn the boundaries with these DIY spaces. It's not your DUTY to write about any band. The only reason it would be "ridiculous" not to cover certain bands is because then you wouldn't seem "on top of it," and we all know the only thing you're on top of is the pile of coke in the Cha Cha bathrooms. (Lame cheap shot, couldn't resist.) But seriously, leave these venues out of the paper. Let their shows be spread by word of mouth like they are supposed to. And if you HAVE TO write about them to make sure you don't fall behind on scene points, start a personal blog or something lower-profile.
26
Dan and Bunnypuncher are on point.
I like and read The Stranger, and I want to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, and I hoped that you guys learned an important lesson with Atlas about shitting where you eat, etc. etc...
Did you just ADMIT to calling the WSLCB on the Holy Mountain?
Seriously, WTF. Total facepalm.
I like and read The Stranger, and I want to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, and I hoped that you guys learned an important lesson with Atlas about shitting where you eat, etc. etc...
Did you just ADMIT to calling the WSLCB on the Holy Mountain?
Seriously, WTF. Total facepalm.
28
So the venue's already closed, and people are heaping resentment (w/ a heavy dose of entitlement) upon the Stranger for attempting to report as much? The details may be wrong, but a DIY venue put on some rad shows, had some sketchy operating policies, is no more, and maybe some folks (like me) were wondering what happened?
Yeah sure, in the abstract they don't have to report on anything-- no one forces them to write except their own interest in any given subject. But nothing in that abstract argument entitles anyone in the DIY community to any ridiculous code of silence. What kind of reasonable measure could there be for what events are covered and what aren't beyond each writer's own individual enthusiasm? I mean, no one forces bands to play for audiences at all, they could just play to themselves for the sake of music. No one asks you to be upset, you choose what you're upset about based upon the things you care about which are really arbitrary.
Part of what I consider part and parcel of my idea of DIY ethics involves a transparency in motive, practice, and self-examination. Maybe the whole WSLCB thing is a good reminder (like Jeff mentioned) that DIY shows where underagers were getting drunk is a part of why bullshit laws like the TDO got put into place and folks had to rally to get any new All-Ages spaces established at all. And not that it matters anway, but as it's been stated numerous times already-- the organizers chose to stop doing shows of their own accord (probably) weeks ago. So The Stranger can't be blamed for getting it shut down, and are also being hated on for not covering it enough when they were trying to respect its secrecy?
In general, this whole silly meme of vilifying the Stranger and its writers on some false, coke hipster vs. authentic DIY punk dichotomy, continues to be nonsensical and entertainingly inaccurate on its own. I mean, for the most part these music writers are among the nerdiest folks I've ever known (mostly meant in a good way), and you righteously indignant secret-handshakes and password punk club folks sound like the too-cool cultural gate-keepers here.
More...
Yeah sure, in the abstract they don't have to report on anything-- no one forces them to write except their own interest in any given subject. But nothing in that abstract argument entitles anyone in the DIY community to any ridiculous code of silence. What kind of reasonable measure could there be for what events are covered and what aren't beyond each writer's own individual enthusiasm? I mean, no one forces bands to play for audiences at all, they could just play to themselves for the sake of music. No one asks you to be upset, you choose what you're upset about based upon the things you care about which are really arbitrary.
Part of what I consider part and parcel of my idea of DIY ethics involves a transparency in motive, practice, and self-examination. Maybe the whole WSLCB thing is a good reminder (like Jeff mentioned) that DIY shows where underagers were getting drunk is a part of why bullshit laws like the TDO got put into place and folks had to rally to get any new All-Ages spaces established at all. And not that it matters anway, but as it's been stated numerous times already-- the organizers chose to stop doing shows of their own accord (probably) weeks ago. So The Stranger can't be blamed for getting it shut down, and are also being hated on for not covering it enough when they were trying to respect its secrecy?
In general, this whole silly meme of vilifying the Stranger and its writers on some false, coke hipster vs. authentic DIY punk dichotomy, continues to be nonsensical and entertainingly inaccurate on its own. I mean, for the most part these music writers are among the nerdiest folks I've ever known (mostly meant in a good way), and you righteously indignant secret-handshakes and password punk club folks sound like the too-cool cultural gate-keepers here.
31
Sure they can write on any given subject, but wouldn't you all like facts from this knock up writing team? If the Venue is denying that very information you post in your due diligence as a reporter might it be time to revise? Maybe they didnt want your stories because you don't know fact from fiction and they prefered to have people who care about these shows coming, not just those who were told you assholes suggested it. The liquor control board never came, but thanks to you sudden desire to accurately report and give them a call Im sure a knock on the door should be expected shortly. Sorry holy mountaineers, you kids put up with a lot for us. I hope these jerks don't get you in too much trouble. Thanks the stranger, for keeping Seattle lame and boring.
32
Sure they can write on any given subject, but wouldn't you all like facts from this knock up writing team? If the Venue is denying that very information you post in your due diligence as a reporter might it be time to revise? Maybe they didnt want your stories because you don't know fact from fiction and they prefered to have people who care about these shows coming, not just those who were told you assholes suggested it. The liquor control board never came, but thanks to you sudden desire to accurately report and give them a call Im sure a knock on the door should be expected shortly. Sorry holy mountaineers, you kids put up with a lot for us. I hope these jerks don't get you in too much trouble. Thanks the stranger, for keeping Seattle lame and boring.
33
Come on guys, remember we're all on the same team. Whatever mistakes they may have made here, the stranger is worlds better than most altweeklies in supporting the DIY stuff, and Seattle's lucky to have 'em. Save your hate for the Brokencydes of the world.
34
@34: I can't recall offhand any other altweekly narcing on one DIY venue, let alone two.
We are not on the same fucking team. The Stranger has a vested interest in their business model of whatever the fuck passes for journalism nowadays. Their job is to make money. Full stop. If you think you're on the same team as them, you are a sycophant. You are a chump.
We are not on the same fucking team. The Stranger has a vested interest in their business model of whatever the fuck passes for journalism nowadays. Their job is to make money. Full stop. If you think you're on the same team as them, you are a sycophant. You are a chump.
35
Dear Line-Out Writers, stick to re-posting Pitchfork News items, and telling us how mad rad Mad Rad is. Stay away from misinformed commentary on the struggling community that actually supports (out of our own pocket) fresh local music and under-appreciated touring bands worldwide. Thank you.
36
isnt it common sense that if you dont want your awesome underground diy venue to get scooped, dont host crowd-drawing nationally touring bands?
also, i found out about the holy mountain because, when you walk down eastlake, there would be an unsightly crowd of idiot teenagers drinking beer out of paper bags and giving the hooligans at soul club a run for their money. the holy mountain did the worlds WORST job at keeping their shit under wraps.
also, i found out about the holy mountain because, when you walk down eastlake, there would be an unsightly crowd of idiot teenagers drinking beer out of paper bags and giving the hooligans at soul club a run for their money. the holy mountain did the worlds WORST job at keeping their shit under wraps.
37
#36 - Devil's Advocate: If you don't want your awesome underground DIY venue to suck ass, isn't it common sense to book bands that draw more people than just their girlfriends?
38
@28 - No one was hating on the Stranger for not covering the Holy Mountain's shows. We (in this case speaking as a person who regularly attended shows there, as well as occasionally helped out at shows) would have all preferred they didn't. And we're not trying to be "secret handshake password punks," anyone that's interested in DIY culture is/was more than welcome. We just don't want to associate with anyone who's going to rat us out to the cops or the liquor control board - I.E. THE STRANGER.
@34 - Preach it.
@36 - Again, speaking as someone who occasionally helped out there, the Holy Mountain did the BEST job possible at keeping people (and their booze) inside. The last show I helped out at, we had FOUR people standing by the ONLY door, watching to make sure no one walked outside with a drink. You know what the fucking idiots did? They hid beers in their jackets, or walked out to their cars and brought the beers back and stood in front of the place drinking them. Then we had someone walking back and forth outside, trying to catch anyone with beers. It was a problem everyone knew was going on, but unfortunately it was the ungrateful hipster douchebag contingent that blew that one for everyone, NOT the Holy Mountain people.
@34 - Preach it.
@36 - Again, speaking as someone who occasionally helped out there, the Holy Mountain did the BEST job possible at keeping people (and their booze) inside. The last show I helped out at, we had FOUR people standing by the ONLY door, watching to make sure no one walked outside with a drink. You know what the fucking idiots did? They hid beers in their jackets, or walked out to their cars and brought the beers back and stood in front of the place drinking them. Then we had someone walking back and forth outside, trying to catch anyone with beers. It was a problem everyone knew was going on, but unfortunately it was the ungrateful hipster douchebag contingent that blew that one for everyone, NOT the Holy Mountain people.
39
I'd refer y'all to the comment in the original article: "I have a call and an email in to the WSLCB and will report what I hear as soon as they respond."
Who called and emailed the Washington Liquor Control Board about the club? The Stranger. Since when did The Stranger staff become Narcs? Is "the scoop" based on a hearsay rumor from three unnamed people really worth closing down one of our cool clubs? I love the Stranger for much of what it does, but this is completely not ethical. You fucked up, pretty badly, in a way that hurts the music community, and if you have any balls you should own up to it and apologize.
Didn't you learn their lesson after the Atlas incident? Apparently not, now you have called the Liquor Board on Holy Mountain. This is a creative city, it has its fair share of low-key underground events, clubs, speakeasys, poker houses, art galleries, sex clubs, music shows, etc. These events are for a niche audience of fans and essentially are private parties, they are none of the government's fucking business. The cops have real crime to worry about, not a bunch of kids rocking out to a band they love with a few beers, don't waste their time and tax payer dollars this way. Please don't call the cops on these events, please don't call the liquor control board about these events, and please don't write specific details about these events that will clue the government onto them and shut them down. One would think it would be a no brainer, but you don't seem to get it. Seattle's underground music, art, and alternative communities are fun and exciting, but they turn absolutely shitty when you bring (or call and email) the government's attention down on them. Please back the fuck off, it's not your scene to ruin.
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Who called and emailed the Washington Liquor Control Board about the club? The Stranger. Since when did The Stranger staff become Narcs? Is "the scoop" based on a hearsay rumor from three unnamed people really worth closing down one of our cool clubs? I love the Stranger for much of what it does, but this is completely not ethical. You fucked up, pretty badly, in a way that hurts the music community, and if you have any balls you should own up to it and apologize.
Didn't you learn their lesson after the Atlas incident? Apparently not, now you have called the Liquor Board on Holy Mountain. This is a creative city, it has its fair share of low-key underground events, clubs, speakeasys, poker houses, art galleries, sex clubs, music shows, etc. These events are for a niche audience of fans and essentially are private parties, they are none of the government's fucking business. The cops have real crime to worry about, not a bunch of kids rocking out to a band they love with a few beers, don't waste their time and tax payer dollars this way. Please don't call the cops on these events, please don't call the liquor control board about these events, and please don't write specific details about these events that will clue the government onto them and shut them down. One would think it would be a no brainer, but you don't seem to get it. Seattle's underground music, art, and alternative communities are fun and exciting, but they turn absolutely shitty when you bring (or call and email) the government's attention down on them. Please back the fuck off, it's not your scene to ruin.
40
I'd be curious to know what "sources" you consulted before writing this article (and if they actually exist).
Nothing you wrote in the article is accurate.
Word on the street was y'all learned your lesson last time.
Stop spewing gossip and get a real job.
Nothing you wrote in the article is accurate.
Word on the street was y'all learned your lesson last time.
Stop spewing gossip and get a real job.
41
i just want everyone to remember that the space, and all spaces a kin to the late great holy mountain were and always will be a space for music and art to continue with and in the communities of people who care to keep these things alive and relevant. thanks for the memories and the good times and shows. thanks for keeping things moving in the art and music scene. it was and is a lot of work and worth all of the crap that comes from the effort and with or with out this one spot it will continue.
42
"Oh hey, WSLCB, this is The Stranger again. Yeah we heard y'all stopped by this underground DIY venue at this address where there was a bunch of underage kids drinking and smoking and doing other naughty things children shouldn't do, y'know because God said so or something. Did you ACTUALLY do that? Because I gotta keep my scene cred for being T3H BESTEST INTARWEBZ REPORTAR EVAR so get back to me asap, kthxbi"
Are you fucking kidding me? Nice work, Dave.
Are you fucking kidding me? Nice work, Dave.
43
"Oh hey, WSLCB, this is The Stranger again. Yeah we heard y'all stopped by this underground DIY venue at this address where there was a bunch of underage kids drinking and smoking and doing other naughty things children shouldn't do, y'know because God said so or something. Did you ACTUALLY do that? Because I gotta keep my scene cred for being T3H BESTEST INTARWEBZ REPORTAR EVAR so get back to me asap, kthxbi"
Are you fucking kidding me? Nice work, Dave.
Are you fucking kidding me? Nice work, Dave.
44
they probably were visited by someone, either the liquor board or the fire marshal, but they just don't want their landlord to know. or dave segal is just making shit up to be a dick.
either way, please leave the scoops to J. SCOOPINTHAL LEE. go review some cds.
either way, please leave the scoops to J. SCOOPINTHAL LEE. go review some cds.
45
There should be photographs of The Stranger's staff posted at every punk and hardcore show in Seattle, in order to properly deny them entrance.
46
the holy mountain was the most fun venue in Seattle to see a show. it was also the most fun place to play a show. the crowds are always enthusiastic. the bills were always diverse and dynamic. "legit" venues (ie. comet, chop suey, the sunset) could learn from the holy mountain...but instead those places suck more often than not.
if you hate the holy mountain, i'll put gum in your hair. fuck you.
and seriously fuck the stranger. i loved you before i moved here. now i'm slowly wanting to gouge out your eyes..if you had any competition from another publication, nobody would read you folks. at least when it comes to music information. i have no beef w/ any other department.
music department = questionable at best.
if you hate the holy mountain, i'll put gum in your hair. fuck you.
and seriously fuck the stranger. i loved you before i moved here. now i'm slowly wanting to gouge out your eyes..if you had any competition from another publication, nobody would read you folks. at least when it comes to music information. i have no beef w/ any other department.
music department = questionable at best.
47
As someone who loved The Holy Mountain, played there, shot a music video there recently, had a friend who lived there, and has taken well documented issue with the Stranger's coverage of DIY venues before, I'm gonna have to side with the Stranger on this one.
Holy Mountain actually shut down for shows a while ago. From the impression I get, this blog is the best source for local music happenings, of which this definitely counts. The story here is not the visit from the liquor board, but that Holy Mountain is no longer a venue (or at least a smoking drinking one).
Even if Dave's three sources were lying to him, which I'm inclined to believe they weren't, Holy Mountain already stopped booking shows so it doesn't really effect shit to print this story.
Also, I've kept an eye on it, and the Stranger has done a fine job of keeping Holy Mountain, especially their location, out of print and and off the web.
Nothing is fucked here dudes. As a musician who loved to smoke and drink at these shows, Holy Mountain would still make a killer all ages venue and I hope they decide to at least keep something going even if it meant no booze and cigarettes.
Holy Mountain actually shut down for shows a while ago. From the impression I get, this blog is the best source for local music happenings, of which this definitely counts. The story here is not the visit from the liquor board, but that Holy Mountain is no longer a venue (or at least a smoking drinking one).
Even if Dave's three sources were lying to him, which I'm inclined to believe they weren't, Holy Mountain already stopped booking shows so it doesn't really effect shit to print this story.
Also, I've kept an eye on it, and the Stranger has done a fine job of keeping Holy Mountain, especially their location, out of print and and off the web.
Nothing is fucked here dudes. As a musician who loved to smoke and drink at these shows, Holy Mountain would still make a killer all ages venue and I hope they decide to at least keep something going even if it meant no booze and cigarettes.
49
Still don't understand why you would want to keep the location of a venue super secret. Not that i would want to attend any shows at your super private club house.
50
The nature of most DIY spaces like this are that they are ephemeral-- if you want something sustainable and lasting, you're better served doing something to legitimize it in some fashion (which at minimum usually means keeping the booze and cigarettes out). What I was trying to say in my earlier comment unsuccessfully was, echoing @47, The Stranger is reporting on a venue that already closed. No venue of this kind lasts forever, so getting snotty with individuals over some perceived slight on something that had its own expiration date seems way off the mark.
51
#47 & #50: Nobody cares that Line Out is reporting on the Holy Mountain closing. If anything, they're a few weeks late with that info. I was supposed to play there in July, and I knew the show was called off there the middle of last month. Sucks, but no big whoop.
I'd back you guys IF 1.) Dave hadn't posted some potentially sketchy information. Homeboy should have named his sources, at least. 2.) As Dan pointed out, if the WSLCB didn't actually show up then, they CERTAINLY WILL NOW!
While it's likely that visit by the WSLCB in the next couple of days won't turn up much, it's not cool to sic the man on somebody for no good reason. If someone sent the fuzz over to my house for no good reason, I'd be fuckin' PISSED.
I'd back you guys IF 1.) Dave hadn't posted some potentially sketchy information. Homeboy should have named his sources, at least. 2.) As Dan pointed out, if the WSLCB didn't actually show up then, they CERTAINLY WILL NOW!
While it's likely that visit by the WSLCB in the next couple of days won't turn up much, it's not cool to sic the man on somebody for no good reason. If someone sent the fuzz over to my house for no good reason, I'd be fuckin' PISSED.
52
Chris and John, the points you make are excellent, but you are missing the big picture here. People aren't so much upset about the venue closing as much as they are about the Stranger reporting false information. I really don't understand how you can justify tabloid journalism.
54
As several of you, I am also a close friend of those who worked so hard to keep the holy mountain alive and have always appreciated the strangers seeming cooperation keeping things there on the down low. These kids are not snobs, trying to keep the best shows exclusive, nor are they alcoholic fuck ups who thought underage drinking was something to be proud of. The fact is they are hardworking, thoughtful people who live and work to provide Seattle with an alternative to neumos and the showbox. They supported all sorts of shows, kept them very affordable, brought artists and tours we should all be excited about and they paid better than any place in the city to boot. We were all better off for their presence. Under age drinking happens at nearly every house venue in the city, calling the LCB on these kids is not just not just bad reporting, it's spiteful. Those holy mountaineers are approachable, kind people. Maybe when you write about these places you should go directly to the source. I know that they are always willing to answer questions fully and honestly when they come from people interested in fostering seattle art community. keep that in mind when you try to bring the heat to the doorstep of their home.
55
@47 & 50, I'm with you. However, The Stranger should definitely get 1st hand sources before printing anything, as a rule... and when dealing with a sensitive population, it would be wise to not immediately go to official sources first, if at all. In this case especially, the people at The Holy Mountain are incredibly approachable and friendly, and I doubt it would be hard to get a hold of them.
Get all up in your Chomsky's propaganda model theory, buddies - sourcing should protect the interests of those you want to support, so if you rely on WSLCB it won't do anything to promote the interests of a thriving underground arts community. Media and journalism can never be objective, but it can be fair and somewhat honest. Don't leave a big footprint where you tread, friends.
Get all up in your Chomsky's propaganda model theory, buddies - sourcing should protect the interests of those you want to support, so if you rely on WSLCB it won't do anything to promote the interests of a thriving underground arts community. Media and journalism can never be objective, but it can be fair and somewhat honest. Don't leave a big footprint where you tread, friends.
56
re: black dice, it's kind of hard to lay the blame on publicists in LA promoting national tours for not knowing that a Seattle venue wants to stay under the radar.
57
Wow...Do any of youze ever take a step back and consider how much the internet truly sucks? It seems like the line out commenters are mainly a bunch of anonymous douches who are devoted to trashing Grandy. These are the individuals that call for the boycott of the stranger.
All right, boycott the free press. Stop "buying" it. Just keep blowin' up the comments on the stranger's blogs. That'll show 'em.
I have a suspicion that most of the haters are bitter members of shitty bands that get no press love.
All right, boycott the free press. Stop "buying" it. Just keep blowin' up the comments on the stranger's blogs. That'll show 'em.
I have a suspicion that most of the haters are bitter members of shitty bands that get no press love.
59
#57 - "I have a suspicion that most of the haters are bitter members of shitty bands that get no press love"
That is the Line-Out version of Godwin's law.
That is the Line-Out version of Godwin's law.
60
Who said ANYTHING about a boycotting the stranger 56? It's the most hilarious and entertaining alternative weekly on the west coast! Dave Segal and Eric Grandy however, I'm gonna avoid those dudes like the plauge! Their lack of sensitivity to the diy environment combined with their generally dry music reviews and their tendancy to not even get their facts straight kind of makes me want to vomit all over their pretentious press badges. Congrats on all the slog comments though dave, too bad the whole city is talking shit about you and your shifty tabloid reporting. P.S. If gonna spread rumors, at least make them funny.
61
#57 - I'm not here to bash Grandy as a person but as a journalist. Besides, who actually read the stranger for music reviews really? Do they even do those anymore?
As someone who knows several people who live at the holy mountain, what he reported was inaccurate. Why should we let him get away with it?
As someone who knows several people who live at the holy mountain, what he reported was inaccurate. Why should we let him get away with it?
62
I'm not sure what's more pathetic, Dave Segal, or the fact that the Stranger hired him again after he floundered his first gig
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