Friday, June 19, 2009
Legal / Politics / Media Two Quick Thoughts About Holy Mountain, House Shows, WSLCB, the Media, Etc...
Posted by Eric Grandy on Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:14 PM
The Liquor Control Board doesn't really have any authority over a show/party at your private residence so long as you're not, you know, illegally serving liquor, right? Just like the DEA has no authority over your Friday night poker game so long as you're not moving kilos of cocaine? Otherwise, don't you only have to worry about noise complaints and the other shit that any other house party deals with?
And/but if you book acts like Black Dice and Wolf Eyes, bands who have released records, respectively, through EMI and Sub Pop (hella DIY, dudes!), it's going to get written about. If you can't take the attention, maybe you should be booking lower-profile shows.
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3
@2: I'm comfortable with everything I've written/not written about Holy Mountain over the course of its existence and now after its demise (RIP).
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And maybe you shouldn't talk about legal matters when you haven't gone to law school. You're illogical reasoning is the reason why Stranger pieces are read in schools as examples of flawed logic.
5
since you're asking, no, that isn't all they have to worry about. they also have to take in to account things like permits and fire codes, maximum occupancy, etc.
you know, like what shut down shows at atlas?
you know, like what shut down shows at atlas?
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Atlas had to worry about occupancy and fire codes because they were/are a public business, Jedd. If you're throwing a show/party at a private residence, I'm pretty sure different rules apply.
9
Grandy, why do you go out of your way to pick fights with people? You're not clever, smart, or interesting. You are just a douchebag with too much time on his hands. I guess that is bound to happen when you only travel three blocks from The Stranger's office to Neumo's. Don't speculate about laws or anything else for that matter. You're inadequate in so many ways. Just ask your girlfriend.
10
OK, this is getting trolly. Eric makes a good point. If you have a venue that ain't following the rules AND makes its presence known, don't be shocked when shit goes south. I heard a lot about Holy Mountain and am surprised it lasted as long as it did. Yeah, dealing with the LCB is a pain in the ass but it goes with the territory of, you know, running an actual venue. Anyone who has heard my years of bitching regarding the whole "no alcohol on stage" laws should know that, but as the person in charge of the bands at the Blue Moon, I have to enforce it. And I hate it. But better to be an existing venue with this minor hassle than... well, Holy Mountain.
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UPDATE: A Holy Mountain organizer responds: "None of what you wrote is true. I don’t know who you talked to. We don’t even really do shows anymore. The Liquor Control Board never visited us. For the last four or five shows that we did do, we didn’t allow smoking or alcohol inside at all. We're not sure whether we're going to do shows anymore."
14
#10: Nobody's disagreeing about that. You run a venue like the Holy Mountain, you're takin' a big fuckin' risk. That's not really up for debate. The residents know that.
What has people all sore is that Dave Segal reported that the WSLCB visited the Holy Mountain, something that at least one resident of the Holy Mountain and several others have refuted. To heap shit upon feces, Dave put in a call to the WSLCB, ensuring that if the WSLCB didn't actually pay them a visit that one time, they will soon.
In essence, Dave Segal may have called the cops on the Holy Mountain.
I wanted to post a link to Public Enemy's "A Letter To The NY Post" on YouTube, but can't find it. Oh well.
What has people all sore is that Dave Segal reported that the WSLCB visited the Holy Mountain, something that at least one resident of the Holy Mountain and several others have refuted. To heap shit upon feces, Dave put in a call to the WSLCB, ensuring that if the WSLCB didn't actually pay them a visit that one time, they will soon.
In essence, Dave Segal may have called the cops on the Holy Mountain.
I wanted to post a link to Public Enemy's "A Letter To The NY Post" on YouTube, but can't find it. Oh well.
15
Don't tell vice they can't bust down your door for that Friday night poker game? You do know its a class c felony just to play online poker in washington state? Your parallels fail.
16
I heard the Blue Moon lets underage kids in and also sells some fine cocaine. Ask for the "Lizard Blizzard" aka Grandys favorite blend. $50 a gram!
17
Ah, so it's more of a he said/they said story. I had no idea. All I knew was all I heard about Holy Mountain (the smoking indoors, etc.) and figured it was an LCB thing.
Incidentally, if you ever have a few free hours, I highly recommend reading the LCB rules and regs. There's some seriously strange stuff in there.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?…
Incidentally, if you ever have a few free hours, I highly recommend reading the LCB rules and regs. There's some seriously strange stuff in there.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?…
18
I plan to open a sequel to Club Lagoon called Club Molesto. It will be an all ages club that sells second hand rock and encourages statutory rape. We will only book the best Djs that know how to play out KUBE's and KEXP's playlists from 5 years ago. And I'd appreciate it if The Stranger, MR&R, and Vice didn't fucking write about us.
Reporting kills music. Fuck you all.
Reporting kills music. Fuck you all.
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@18: But can I smoke inside?
(As an aside, I understood that the reason the Mountain permitted people to smoke inside was because they wanted to keep people in the building so that they 1.) wouldn't congregate on the sidewalk drawing attention, and 2.) would actually watch the fucking bands. Please correct me if wrong.)
(As an aside, I understood that the reason the Mountain permitted people to smoke inside was because they wanted to keep people in the building so that they 1.) wouldn't congregate on the sidewalk drawing attention, and 2.) would actually watch the fucking bands. Please correct me if wrong.)
20
It's not the Fleshlight's fault, really. Just the fact that trying to use the one I ordered for my 34th birthday has rammed home the basic fact that I am a loser and that I am never going to get laid in my life.
I am apparently both too small and too big to use the Fleshlight. Small in the and big in the grossly overweight stomach. The result is that I apparently can't get very deep into the thing and experience the ribbing and other textures.
I ordered four inserts at once, three supertights with the three sorts of textures -- wave, ribbed, bumped -- and one ultratight. With all of them I have been having an incredible struggle to find a comfortable position to get in with my enormous stomach to allow for using the thing long enough to get off. I apparently developed a way to masturbate by hand that deluded myself into thinking I was normal. I am obviously not. I can only seem to go about an inch and a half into this Fleshlight before my fat gets in the way and the smallness of my defeat the purpose. The incredible depression of the experience makes it hard for me to stay erect as the whole time I am thinking about what a deformed, out-of-shape loser I am, so I end up only half hard or less.
Today is my 34th birthday. I have never had a girlfriend in my life, due to being a shy fatass with an ugly skin condition that I was afraid of having anyone see by taking my clothes off. I am so incredibly fucking lonely and depressed. I just want to be able to hug a woman, to hold her in my arms. Sex is frankly secondary to me, which is lucky given that I haven't had any except with my own hand.
I bought this thing thinking I would treat myself and make myself happier, but it has just driven home how fucked I am. I guess my only hope at this point is to find a woman who doesn't mind me only using oral sex on her because my obviously doesn't work very well.
More...
I am apparently both too small and too big to use the Fleshlight. Small in the and big in the grossly overweight stomach. The result is that I apparently can't get very deep into the thing and experience the ribbing and other textures.
I ordered four inserts at once, three supertights with the three sorts of textures -- wave, ribbed, bumped -- and one ultratight. With all of them I have been having an incredible struggle to find a comfortable position to get in with my enormous stomach to allow for using the thing long enough to get off. I apparently developed a way to masturbate by hand that deluded myself into thinking I was normal. I am obviously not. I can only seem to go about an inch and a half into this Fleshlight before my fat gets in the way and the smallness of my defeat the purpose. The incredible depression of the experience makes it hard for me to stay erect as the whole time I am thinking about what a deformed, out-of-shape loser I am, so I end up only half hard or less.
Today is my 34th birthday. I have never had a girlfriend in my life, due to being a shy fatass with an ugly skin condition that I was afraid of having anyone see by taking my clothes off. I am so incredibly fucking lonely and depressed. I just want to be able to hug a woman, to hold her in my arms. Sex is frankly secondary to me, which is lucky given that I haven't had any except with my own hand.
I bought this thing thinking I would treat myself and make myself happier, but it has just driven home how fucked I am. I guess my only hope at this point is to find a woman who doesn't mind me only using oral sex on her because my obviously doesn't work very well.
22
@6 Eric, yes and no. Depends on who's enforcing, and depends where you are, but it's entirely possible for "private" spaces that don't allow alcohol to get shut down for reasons having to do with things other than noise--capacity, fire safety, lack of permits, etc. Granted, these things usually get triggered when someone has a complaint about something else--noisy or obnoxious behavior by concertgoers, for example.
The threshold of public/private is sort of fuzzy, which gives regulatory authorities a lot of discretion; which in turn is frustrating for people who want to put on house shows and not get shut down, but don't know what rules they're supposed to be abiding by. Heck, often the authorities themselves lack clear guidelines about what standard they're supposed to be upholding.
The threshold of public/private is sort of fuzzy, which gives regulatory authorities a lot of discretion; which in turn is frustrating for people who want to put on house shows and not get shut down, but don't know what rules they're supposed to be abiding by. Heck, often the authorities themselves lack clear guidelines about what standard they're supposed to be upholding.
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As someone who puts on underground events, it's a little concerning that you guys went first to the Liquor Control Board, then the landlord, for your information, instead of to the people who were involved with The Holy Mountain. I've always had nothing but positive experiences with The Stranger with DIY shows that I've booked or helped run, even when they ended up in The Stranger Suggests, but I would definitely like to see more discretion with how these sensitive circumstances are dealt with.
I should note, too, that everyone I've met from the Stranger has been completely considerate and has respected the wishes of underground events and organizers recently, with perhaps one or two notable exceptions. The Stranger has been a big advocate for underground arts and the DIY community and helped it grow a ton in recent years, but of course mistakes are made from time to time. Let's just not see any more blatant mistakes like this. Cool? Cool.
I should note, too, that everyone I've met from the Stranger has been completely considerate and has respected the wishes of underground events and organizers recently, with perhaps one or two notable exceptions. The Stranger has been a big advocate for underground arts and the DIY community and helped it grow a ton in recent years, but of course mistakes are made from time to time. Let's just not see any more blatant mistakes like this. Cool? Cool.
27
Who cares about a venue that only a handful of people and a troll get all worked up about. Mistakes happen, learn from them and please move on.
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stop it eric. just stop stop stop it. pretend just once to be a fan of music and stop being such a jerk. you are in a position to help bands and the people that help them and i think you will feel better about yourself when your old if you just change course. its not too late. yes it is.
30
Both with poker and with private venue shows you're missing something Eric. There definitely are a bunch of laws that effect these types of events, especially if you are breaking state gambling laws, liquor laws, fire codes, max occupancies, etc. There are a lot of spaces in this town that operate in a gray area between just some friends playing poker or having a band play their party and a fully legal casino or club. Where that gray area lies, both with under-the-radar live spaces and with poker houses, is a hell of a lot of fun.
It seems here you are arguing they are asking for trouble with the law and it's OK for The Stranger to call the liquor board or alert the Fire Marshall about a venue being a fire trap. Legally, sure, but is it ethically? And do you see this as The Stranger's role in Seattle? To tattle to authorities on DIY venues or events? I'm still baffled as to why Segal called the WSLCB to ask about Holy Mountain.
It seems here you are arguing they are asking for trouble with the law and it's OK for The Stranger to call the liquor board or alert the Fire Marshall about a venue being a fire trap. Legally, sure, but is it ethically? And do you see this as The Stranger's role in Seattle? To tattle to authorities on DIY venues or events? I'm still baffled as to why Segal called the WSLCB to ask about Holy Mountain.
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