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Wednesday, September 23, 2009
Politics McGinn's Nightlife Plan: More Transit, Later Hours
Posted by Dominic Holden on Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:47 AM
If elected mayor, Mike McGinn will collaborate with the Washington State Liquor Control Board to allow "bars and nightlife venues to stay open later with different closing times into the evening," he says. That would follow the lead of other cities that allow certain bars remain open past the state-mandated closing time of 2:00 a.m. Doing so would "cut down on incidents after establishments close." In a nightlife and music plan released this morning, McGinn laid out several proposals to keep the nightlife scene vibrant and safe. He notes that in 2008 Seattle's music industry created over 11,000 jobs and generated $90 million in local sales and taxes.
Performers and club operators "deserve a safe and supportive environment to earn their living," McGinn writes. To that end, he proposes increasing police patrols at "hot spots," acknowledging the raucous crowds that pour out of music venues and onto the street, such as in Pioneer Square. He also suggests maintaining late-night transit service for folks to get home until 3:00 a.m.
McGinn says that "new residential development must not be able to drive out existing nightlife establishments." The proposal appears to respond to recent complaints about historic nightlife venues from new neighbors. For instance, a woman who moved into a new building on Broadway and East Pine Street called police 500 times to complain about noise. And a woman who moved into a retirement home in Ballard called police about noise emanating from a nearby venue. A noise ordinance passed in 2007 penalizes bars and clubs that have amplified noise that is "plainly audible" from inside nearby buildings, even if the club was there first. While McGinn suggests new buildings must use soundproofing to block noise, he stops short of grandfathering in all historic nightlife venues to be protected from noise complaints from residents of newly constructed buildings.
Here's the full plan:
SEATTLE MUSIC & NIGHTLIFE POLICYSeattle’s music scene is already nationally recognized and admired, and our many bars, nightclubs, and performers are essential revenue sources for the city. But it can be even better if the city helps continue its growth by encouraging it as we do other industries.
In 2008 alone, the music industry in Seattle directly created over 11,000 jobs, with more than 2,000 businesses generating $1.2 billion in annual sales, as well as $487 million in earnings. The industry also generated $90 million in state and local sales and B&O taxes.
Beyond revenue, our music scene also creates vibrant and active neighborhoods, with customers from bars and clubs patronizing other local businesses throughout the day and night.
Nightclubs, bars, pubs, and other music venues — along with Seattle’s many bands, DJs, and entertainers — deserve a safe and supportive environment to earn their living. Similarly, residents living near music venues have the right to enjoy their homes in safety and peace.
I believe that reasonable people can work together to develop rules governing nightlife and nearby development — rules that keep Seattle’s music scene thriving.
PUBLIC SAFETY
• In order to help ensure safety and peace around bars and clubs, late-night patrols should be increased in “hotspot” neighborhoods.
• To help cut down on incidents after establishments close, the city should work with the state Liquor Control Board to encourage staggered closing times.
• To help cut down on drinking and driving, transportation choices such as light rail, taxi service, and buses need to be accessible until at least 3 a.m.
NIGHTLIFE & DEVELOPMENT
• New residential development must not be able to drive out existing nightlife establishments.
• Any new development within the proximity of an existing bar or club should be required to build sound-proofing measures into their plans.
• To maintain an open dialogue between the nightlife community and the city, the Seattle Music & Nightlife Association should have quarterly meetings with the mayor.
ENCOURAGING MUSIC AND OTHER ARTS
• The Seattle Office of Film + Music must remain open and active.
• In order to help maintain an environment where Seattle’s music scene can continue to thrive, the Seattle City of Music Initiative must remain in place and will be improved upon through work with the Seattle Music Commission.
• To further encourage the arts, the next Families and Education Levy should include funding for music and art programs in Seattle public schools.
4
Very sweet.
No wonder the nightlife-hating establisment players are backing Mallahan.
I like Mike.
No wonder the nightlife-hating establisment players are backing Mallahan.
I like Mike.
6
This is a very sensible plan. Well thought-out and realistic in it's goals. Good on McGinn for coming out with this.
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If Slog is feeling the love on this, come support Mike at his fundraiser tomorrow night feature POTUS, Krist Novoselic and The Maldives. http://mcginnformayor.com/battle-for-sea… Next Wednesday!
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The best way to show your love for McGinn's policies is to support his campaign! He needs money in order to WIN. Donate NOW at http://mcginnformayor.com/donate/.
10
He also suggests maintaining late-night transit service for folks to get home until 3:00 a.m.
No more drunk driving for me!
No more drunk driving for me!
12
Because the Liquor Control Board is known for their reasonableness and Metro certainly has the funds to run busses another hour.
The stuff on buildings is nice, and probably the only thing on there remotely feasible.
Like Most of McGinn's ideas they seem to require him to be something other than mayor of Seattle, or somehow gain influence that has alluded all his predecessors.
The stuff on buildings is nice, and probably the only thing on there remotely feasible.
Like Most of McGinn's ideas they seem to require him to be something other than mayor of Seattle, or somehow gain influence that has alluded all his predecessors.
14
And really, none of those things will do anything to stop the problems occuring now. Without grandfathering and without ideally creating 'noise zones' nothing will change, until maybe many decades from now when every building has been replaced.
15
The probability of 3 am bus service is, oh, 'bout zero.
Uh, in case you haven't been paying attention,
1) Metro is facing HUGE BUDGET SHORTFALLS, and thus there is no money or ability to put service to 3 am.
2) Metro is a county agency and McGinn as mayor would have no control over Metro and thus would not be able to make 3 am service happen
This is a hugely empty promise. He simply has no chance of delivering on it.
Uh, in case you haven't been paying attention,
1) Metro is facing HUGE BUDGET SHORTFALLS, and thus there is no money or ability to put service to 3 am.
2) Metro is a county agency and McGinn as mayor would have no control over Metro and thus would not be able to make 3 am service happen
This is a hugely empty promise. He simply has no chance of delivering on it.
16
At last, a candidate who (or whose people) read and digest the kind of stuff that gets hashed out on Slog/Line Out. Someone's paying attention. And yeah, I suppose these are as likely as any political promises to turn out empty, but I'm embarrassed at how refreshing I find it to be pandered to DIRECTLY for a change! Don't have to read between these lines at all.
17
McGinn is the kid running for class president who promises to make the soda machine free and add an extra half-hour to lunch.
How's he going to do ANY of this, much less ALL of it?
Apparently he believes young voters won't question any of it.
How's he going to do ANY of this, much less ALL of it?
Apparently he believes young voters won't question any of it.
18
@15 all true, but at least someone is acknowledging that it is legitimate need. To me, that's a start.
19
@12/@15: Seattle utilized Bridging The Gap funds to increase bus service in Seattle, SDOT has the option to also fund, and there are service partnerships that can be made between participating businesses. Do you think night clubs won't do it? Moreover, with McGinn's idea to propose a transit ballot measure to the voters of this city, it's very likely he'll package more bus hours into that as well.
Service in Seattle would be very limited if based solely on what Metro spent on us.
In terms of the WSLCB, they have been approached about the possibility of extended nightclub hours, and it's doable, but it's strictly up to the municipality to allow or disallow and enforce the WSLCB's rules. The main reason they're amenable to the idea is that extended hours have been shown to be fairly profitable for them and they lose no money by allowing it. Nickels never did it because... well, 'cuz he didn't want to.
Seattle has a lot more power than you realize.
Service in Seattle would be very limited if based solely on what Metro spent on us.
In terms of the WSLCB, they have been approached about the possibility of extended nightclub hours, and it's doable, but it's strictly up to the municipality to allow or disallow and enforce the WSLCB's rules. The main reason they're amenable to the idea is that extended hours have been shown to be fairly profitable for them and they lose no money by allowing it. Nickels never did it because... well, 'cuz he didn't want to.
Seattle has a lot more power than you realize.
20
@18: That's a red herring. Seattle can and will fund more service hours. Almost every hour of new bus service in this city for the past 3 years has been due to payments from the city. Metro's budget problem is suitably their own, especially considering they give so little new service to the city.
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@19 Just how big will this package be? We are not just talking about a couple buses here. Now a nice streetcar network could do this, but of course McGinn is opposed to that, in favor of some silly light rail plan that will go nowhere. I also highly doubt nightclubs are going to pick up the tab, they are not exactly rolling in money right now, nor are they ever really.
I'll need to see some evidence that it’s up to municipalities to ignore WSLCB rules. That does not sound right. And really, staggered closing times are a pretty minor fix. Plus keeping bars and clubs open later is not exactly going to reduce noise complaints. I mean personally I would get rid of all the rules about when bars have to close along with a host of other silly nonsense that comes out of the WSLCB, but I look more for that from my state reps and not my city ones.
Now if he would come out and support grandfathering in existing clubs and designating certain areas as nightlife areas that would something worth talking about. Or hell just weakening noise rules.
McGinn is the perfect example of the problem with simply listening to someone’s ideas. It sounds great in theory but I want someone with realistic goals and an ability to get them done. I see none of that in McGinn, which is why he is better on the non-governmental side. Dude does not have what it takes to be mayor. Not even close. Sadly Mallahan is not much better.
@20, Its not like our budget situation is much better. The city does not really have millions to throw at Metro and honestly if they did I would rather they improve service during the day first considering that walking is faster than the bus for me to get downtown and I live 1.5-2 miles away.
I'll need to see some evidence that it’s up to municipalities to ignore WSLCB rules. That does not sound right. And really, staggered closing times are a pretty minor fix. Plus keeping bars and clubs open later is not exactly going to reduce noise complaints. I mean personally I would get rid of all the rules about when bars have to close along with a host of other silly nonsense that comes out of the WSLCB, but I look more for that from my state reps and not my city ones.
Now if he would come out and support grandfathering in existing clubs and designating certain areas as nightlife areas that would something worth talking about. Or hell just weakening noise rules.
McGinn is the perfect example of the problem with simply listening to someone’s ideas. It sounds great in theory but I want someone with realistic goals and an ability to get them done. I see none of that in McGinn, which is why he is better on the non-governmental side. Dude does not have what it takes to be mayor. Not even close. Sadly Mallahan is not much better.
@20, Its not like our budget situation is much better. The city does not really have millions to throw at Metro and honestly if they did I would rather they improve service during the day first considering that walking is faster than the bus for me to get downtown and I live 1.5-2 miles away.
22
By the way, just operating costs for Metro are 100 bucks per hour above what’s recovered by fares (and at night that’s probably an understatement). For every route you extend you are probably talking at least 3 additional hours as you can't just keep the buses running, but have to deal with time for cleaning, maintenance, shift changes, etc. That’s 300, per route, per day, assuming there is no need to buy more buses or other capital costs. Depending on ridership subsidizing cabs might be a lot cheaper.
24
I really like a lot of his ideas towards nightlife and music, but also see a few red flags in his policies that make me think he might be a big government, tax and spend liberal. The Mayor's Office of Film and Music is a Nickels-era office that I'm not sure I see the value in. And all the talk of the Office of Film and Music, Seattle City of Music Initiative, and the Seattle Music Commission looks like a lot of big government involvement in the music community. I'd be interested in what McGinn sees as the role of government in our music scene? For me it's very minor, a hands off approach that would allow more freedom and creativity and cost tax payers a lot less. We need less overbearing regulations, less taxes and fees, less politicians creating policies that musicians, clubs, bookers, fans and promoters have to deal with. I don't see government as the route to solving any of the problems in the music community... maybe the city has more important issues to spend our tax dollars on then over-regulating clubs?
That said, I'm voting for this guy. But I'd hope he's open to shrinking the role of government in our music scene, rather than increasing it.
That said, I'm voting for this guy. But I'd hope he's open to shrinking the role of government in our music scene, rather than increasing it.
25
As someone who gets off work at midnight and has to get across the city to get back home, increasing late-night bus service even past midnight (the 48 stops running around 11:30!) would be the best thing ever. I don't know whether he can do it, but having someone in power directly agitating for it will probably be a big help. Use that bully pulpit, Mike!
26
@21: WAC 314-11-070 (2):
Basically, with most of the busy nightlife areas falling under AIAs, the uniform application rule would have little to no effect if McGinn chose to make exceptions like, for example, saying bars in Pioneer Square are not subject to the 3am rule or whatever.
In terms of Metro, funding is a dynamic thing, and it's possible to divert funds from other monetary pools toward Metro service. More than that, with McGinn taking office in 2010, he has more than enough time to implement a funding plan, especially with revenues steadily recovering in the Seattle city proper. Having the foresight to anticipate and function within this possibility is a good thing.
Finally, your "$100 bucks an hour" reference ignores that the West King Subarea is far cheaper than the rest of the system, especially given a high level of boardings.
(2) A local government subdivision may fix later opening hours or earlier closing hours than those specified in this rule, so long as the hours apply to all licensed premises in the local government subdivision's jurisdiction. See WAC 314-12-215(3) for exceptions when a premises is in a board recognized alcohol impact area.
Basically, with most of the busy nightlife areas falling under AIAs, the uniform application rule would have little to no effect if McGinn chose to make exceptions like, for example, saying bars in Pioneer Square are not subject to the 3am rule or whatever.
In terms of Metro, funding is a dynamic thing, and it's possible to divert funds from other monetary pools toward Metro service. More than that, with McGinn taking office in 2010, he has more than enough time to implement a funding plan, especially with revenues steadily recovering in the Seattle city proper. Having the foresight to anticipate and function within this possibility is a good thing.
Finally, your "$100 bucks an hour" reference ignores that the West King Subarea is far cheaper than the rest of the system, especially given a high level of boardings.
28
@26, I did not know that on the liquor laws that’s good to know. I would certainly support the mayor making closings later.
As for funding I think there is still a question of efficiency. A bus with a few people on it at 2:30 in the morning probably costs a lot more to operate then say some cabs. I would want to see the total cost and compare to say a program of half-price cab rides from midnight to 3am or something like that. Adding more cab licenses would also probably be a good thing as well.
As for the efficiency of the west sub area, sure, you're right, during the day. At night recovery drops by a large margin. For example only a few routs break 20% during the night and metro considers anything after 7pm to be night. http://transit.metrokc.gov/am/reports/20…
When we are talking early morning hours its going to be even less than that. Plus you are going to have more problems with homeless, crime, etc during the night.
Now something like streetcars, that have lower operating costs would be great for this, plus with fixed rail you spur more dense developments so fewer routes can serve more people. You also don't have issues of returning buses to facilities far from routes etc.
There is also still the issue that there is much larger services needs then late night that would benefit many more people.
As for funding I think there is still a question of efficiency. A bus with a few people on it at 2:30 in the morning probably costs a lot more to operate then say some cabs. I would want to see the total cost and compare to say a program of half-price cab rides from midnight to 3am or something like that. Adding more cab licenses would also probably be a good thing as well.
As for the efficiency of the west sub area, sure, you're right, during the day. At night recovery drops by a large margin. For example only a few routs break 20% during the night and metro considers anything after 7pm to be night. http://transit.metrokc.gov/am/reports/20…
When we are talking early morning hours its going to be even less than that. Plus you are going to have more problems with homeless, crime, etc during the night.
Now something like streetcars, that have lower operating costs would be great for this, plus with fixed rail you spur more dense developments so fewer routes can serve more people. You also don't have issues of returning buses to facilities far from routes etc.
There is also still the issue that there is much larger services needs then late night that would benefit many more people.
29
@28: I think efficiency is trumped by public safety in this instance. Having a bus stop at a fixed point within a fixed span of time (say, a bus +/- 5 minutes of 1:30, 1:50, 2:20, 2:40 and 3:00, which fits in the "buses can be 5 minutes late or early" Metro policy) gives those who choose to have a night out a touch point for when they should cut themselves off, when they should arrive at the bus stop and so on and so forth. It prevents having people milling about without a focus point or aim.
Buses instead of cabs serves it well in this instance. It also gives the city and county extra jurisdiction. There are functional limitations to what a cabbie can do to unruly passengers, obviously. With buses, the RCW is very clear as to what can be done.
I also doubt that a purpose-fit bus would be empty, especially the ones that are near to closing time on the weekends.
Streetcars, though, I agree in regard to helping circulate Cap Hill residents, but really, we are too far from a full streetcar system to contemplate that thing. And besides, SF uses owl buses on its Muni routes anyhow ;)
Buses instead of cabs serves it well in this instance. It also gives the city and county extra jurisdiction. There are functional limitations to what a cabbie can do to unruly passengers, obviously. With buses, the RCW is very clear as to what can be done.
I also doubt that a purpose-fit bus would be empty, especially the ones that are near to closing time on the weekends.
Streetcars, though, I agree in regard to helping circulate Cap Hill residents, but really, we are too far from a full streetcar system to contemplate that thing. And besides, SF uses owl buses on its Muni routes anyhow ;)
30
@29 If you're going to be running buses that frequently you are talking even higher costs. While it sounds nice, I highly doubt it is remotely affordable in the near term. And I think while you might have a tick up in ridership, I don't see that many. I mean its not like everyone goes out and stays to closing. You have tons of people leaving bars all through the night and yet late-night routes are mostly empty. Given the sheer number of places people are going, you are talking a few people per bus. Not that idea.
As for unruly types the RCW's may give them lots of authority, but it has been my experience that it is not used all that well. With a cab you tend to have only people who know each other, a much more confined space, and less chance for trouble. Cab altercations are much rarer than buses since its pretty unlikely my friends are going to rob me or shit on the seat next to me.
Part of the problem is that we have far too few cabs, and far too many restrictions on their operation. I would allow them to use bus stops for waiting after a certain time, create more cab loading zones, make it easier for them to pick up people off the street, etc.
As for unruly types the RCW's may give them lots of authority, but it has been my experience that it is not used all that well. With a cab you tend to have only people who know each other, a much more confined space, and less chance for trouble. Cab altercations are much rarer than buses since its pretty unlikely my friends are going to rob me or shit on the seat next to me.
Part of the problem is that we have far too few cabs, and far too many restrictions on their operation. I would allow them to use bus stops for waiting after a certain time, create more cab loading zones, make it easier for them to pick up people off the street, etc.
32
@31: Does Seattle have cabs that run on propane? A lot of the ones in Vegas have been running on it for years, it's definitely the greener approach for that type of transportation.
Personally I'd be happy with one single bus run out to all the neighborhoods from Capitol Hill and Downtown at 2am. The last bus run to my hood leaves downtown before 1am while I'm still watching the last band or buying another round of drinks. This encourages a combination of drinking and driving and people using a shit ton of inefficient, expensive and polluting taxis. It's ridiculous that the buses don't have at least one run when the bars and clubs close.
Although when you're stuck downtown at 2:30am trying to call Yellow Cab over and over to get a ride home, you sure get to meet a lot of interesting fellow citizens/crack whores you might not otherwise have the pleasure of speaking with.
Personally I'd be happy with one single bus run out to all the neighborhoods from Capitol Hill and Downtown at 2am. The last bus run to my hood leaves downtown before 1am while I'm still watching the last band or buying another round of drinks. This encourages a combination of drinking and driving and people using a shit ton of inefficient, expensive and polluting taxis. It's ridiculous that the buses don't have at least one run when the bars and clubs close.
Although when you're stuck downtown at 2:30am trying to call Yellow Cab over and over to get a ride home, you sure get to meet a lot of interesting fellow citizens/crack whores you might not otherwise have the pleasure of speaking with.
33
I like the ideas but I don't see any links to implementation. At all.
Sure, they're all good thoughts, but those don't do a whole lot of good without a grasp of how in enact them into law.* So I can't help but get a feeling of warm smoke wafting about my posterior as I read down that list, regrettably.
* And re:ClosingTimes, the Mayor of Seattle has exactly ZERO say with the LCB on those policies -- they're state laws and have to be changed at the WAC/RCW level not locally. (Thank god! Can you say "Sober Thought"?)
Sure, they're all good thoughts, but those don't do a whole lot of good without a grasp of how in enact them into law.* So I can't help but get a feeling of warm smoke wafting about my posterior as I read down that list, regrettably.
* And re:ClosingTimes, the Mayor of Seattle has exactly ZERO say with the LCB on those policies -- they're state laws and have to be changed at the WAC/RCW level not locally. (Thank god! Can you say "Sober Thought"?)
34
* And transit service is run at the King County level, so, really...
...how the fuck does McGinn think he'll make that one happen???
...how the fuck does McGinn think he'll make that one happen???
35
@26:
Baconcat you REALLY need to fucking learn to read!
Read it again, ass: LATER opening hours, EARLIER closing times, and ALL licensed premises in the local government subdivision's jurisdiction.
That means the mayor has power to make it so ALL the bars in Seattle can't open until 9:00 AM or have to close by midnight if he wants too -- but it gives him NO POWER over LATER closing times or EARLIER opening hours.
(God you're a useless git!)
Baconcat you REALLY need to fucking learn to read!
(2) A local government subdivision may fix later opening hours or earlier closing hours than those specified in this rule, so long as the hours apply to all licensed premises in the local government subdivision's jurisdiction.
Read it again, ass: LATER opening hours, EARLIER closing times, and ALL licensed premises in the local government subdivision's jurisdiction.
That means the mayor has power to make it so ALL the bars in Seattle can't open until 9:00 AM or have to close by midnight if he wants too -- but it gives him NO POWER over LATER closing times or EARLIER opening hours.
(God you're a useless git!)
36
dan @24 though i share your disdain for over-regulation, the film & music office has been good at helping out venues and musicians--not through regulation (they don't have any regulatory power, to my knowledge) but through practical support and resources. the office is also a voice for the music community within government; people who understand our interests and advocate for them in conversations with other departments and officials.
37
@36- Yeah Kevin, I know that was what it was supposed to do, but I guess I don't think it really worked out that way. It's worked great in hurting the smaller and locally owned clubs, bands, labels and anything DIY. I'm all about the local independent music scene, which I think has suffered under Nickels and the Office of Film and Music did little to support it. We've seen selective harassment of smaller clubs with noise complaints and liquor control board sweeps, the new sprinkler rules, etc. We've seen corporate music promoter/owner AEG come into town and buy both Showbox locations and take over booking the stadium shows at the once non-profit Bumbershoot festival (and a huge ticket price jump with their arrival). And we've seen smaller local clubs struggle and fail. I just am really weary of government involvement in any industry, it usually means huge corporations get breaks and incentives and small guys get more red tape. And I have an even harder time when it's government involvement in something a care so passionately about like our music scene. How many rock songs have been written that were pro-government or pro-politicians? Yeah, not a lot. And do you really think a politician or someone in government understands our interests and can advocate for them?
39
@35: GRRR YOU ARE ANGRY AND IRRATIONAL. :)
Read it again, then ask yourself why there are afterhours bars in Seattle. The law, as it stands, makes a strict law on the sale of liquor but it does not go so far as to disallow bars from staying open late. The WAC as written easily allows, say, The Cuff to have After Hours dancing after last call.
The big catch here is that the current administration is not keen on allowing more clubs to do so and has worked with the WSLCB to basically keep new bars from staying open later. Newer bars and clubs like Pony or Bus Stop did not have the benefit of a forgiving administration to let them stay open late, so typically they don't bother to even ask.
McGinn is going to encourage it, work with the WSLCB and make it happen. AND! Thankfully! The AIA makes certain that he doesn't have to apply it equally across all bars and clubs, so if Pioneer Square gets extra violent, he can just as easily say "you're done, shut down at 2, goodnight".
Thanks for the name-calling, though, it really helps me see what's up with you. Maybe you need to go stay out dancing at The Cuff or Neighbours some weekend? :)
Read it again, then ask yourself why there are afterhours bars in Seattle. The law, as it stands, makes a strict law on the sale of liquor but it does not go so far as to disallow bars from staying open late. The WAC as written easily allows, say, The Cuff to have After Hours dancing after last call.
The big catch here is that the current administration is not keen on allowing more clubs to do so and has worked with the WSLCB to basically keep new bars from staying open later. Newer bars and clubs like Pony or Bus Stop did not have the benefit of a forgiving administration to let them stay open late, so typically they don't bother to even ask.
McGinn is going to encourage it, work with the WSLCB and make it happen. AND! Thankfully! The AIA makes certain that he doesn't have to apply it equally across all bars and clubs, so if Pioneer Square gets extra violent, he can just as easily say "you're done, shut down at 2, goodnight".
Thanks for the name-calling, though, it really helps me see what's up with you. Maybe you need to go stay out dancing at The Cuff or Neighbours some weekend? :)
40
And just to follow-up, the things I think we need most to fund with our tax dollars is public safety, hospitals, libraries, schools, roads and transportation. When we have an 80K Club Czar position and whatever budget is spent on these government offices and commissions on music that really just seem to make things worse for locally owned clubs, at the same time we have to close our public libraries and schools, fire teachers, and downsize (i.e. fire staff at) public libraries, hospitals and schools, we've got a problem. Maybe the courting of out of state corporate media dollars that office brings it justifies it, but it's a hard pill to swallow if you're a fired teacher or librarians and don't see a lot of net gain for the local music community.
41
Actually, @Baconcat, I've been "staying out late dancing" since the Monastery days! (yes, I am frightfully old and even a bit troll-y to boot) You kids these days...
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
And I've worked in the nightlife industry for well over 10 years now, so I can tell you from first-hand experience that if they can't make a profit (i.e. sell booze) for those post-2AM hours most club owners just won't do it - it's not in thier business intrests to pay out wages & overhead for hours that don't create revenue.
As you noted, there's already two clubs on the Hill and two downtown (Contour & NocNoc) that stay open past last call on weekends. And despite what you may or may not think, Seattle is a relatively small market and those existing clubs already have eaten up any after-hours/no booze traffic that might be out there.
There's just no profit incentive for clubs to stay open late. (And as much as I love & respect many of our town's club owners, they remain capitalist businessmen first - and gregarious music scene lovers only to the extent it doesn't jeopardize priority #1.)
GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
And I've worked in the nightlife industry for well over 10 years now, so I can tell you from first-hand experience that if they can't make a profit (i.e. sell booze) for those post-2AM hours most club owners just won't do it - it's not in thier business intrests to pay out wages & overhead for hours that don't create revenue.
As you noted, there's already two clubs on the Hill and two downtown (Contour & NocNoc) that stay open past last call on weekends. And despite what you may or may not think, Seattle is a relatively small market and those existing clubs already have eaten up any after-hours/no booze traffic that might be out there.
There's just no profit incentive for clubs to stay open late. (And as much as I love & respect many of our town's club owners, they remain capitalist businessmen first - and gregarious music scene lovers only to the extent it doesn't jeopardize priority #1.)
42
@37- Let me hit these one at a time-- "We've seen selective harassment of smaller clubs with noise complaints" the city attorney has jurisdiction over this, not the office of film and music.
"liquor board sweeps, the new sprinkler rules, etc." - these are state laws, a city office can't do anything about that except help local owners get the info they need to comply. The office of film and music was, i'm told, really helpful in getting club owners the information they needed to deal with the sprinkler laws (which i agree are totally totally stupid; a great example of unnecessary regulations. but small clubs i've talked to in other cities in washington have been jealous of the service provided by the office of film&music--they've been trying to understand the new laws without having anyone to talk to.
"We've seen corporate music promoter/owner AEG come into town and buy both Showbox locations and take over booking the stadium shows at the once non-profit Bumbershoot festival (and a huge ticket price jump with their arrival). And we've seen smaller local clubs struggle and fail." not sure what the office of film and music has to do with that.
"I just am really weary of government involvement in any industry, it usually means huge corporations get breaks and incentives and small guys get more red tape." Sometimes that's true--you haven't demonstrated that it's true in this case with this industry. Unless AEG got some tax break that's not been reported in the media.
"And do you really think a politician or someone in government understands our interests and can advocate for them?" Yes. One time-tested solution is to get active in civics and engage the system; figure out how to walk that line between militancy and reputability. That's why it's cool to see people from punk backgrounds getting involved in politics;
i'd bet the conversations that happen because there's a line of communication between city hall and the music community does result in better policy, like exempting the small clubs from admissions taxes--that's a really great move that supports the little guys while still making the corporate guys pay.
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"liquor board sweeps, the new sprinkler rules, etc." - these are state laws, a city office can't do anything about that except help local owners get the info they need to comply. The office of film and music was, i'm told, really helpful in getting club owners the information they needed to deal with the sprinkler laws (which i agree are totally totally stupid; a great example of unnecessary regulations. but small clubs i've talked to in other cities in washington have been jealous of the service provided by the office of film&music--they've been trying to understand the new laws without having anyone to talk to.
"We've seen corporate music promoter/owner AEG come into town and buy both Showbox locations and take over booking the stadium shows at the once non-profit Bumbershoot festival (and a huge ticket price jump with their arrival). And we've seen smaller local clubs struggle and fail." not sure what the office of film and music has to do with that.
"I just am really weary of government involvement in any industry, it usually means huge corporations get breaks and incentives and small guys get more red tape." Sometimes that's true--you haven't demonstrated that it's true in this case with this industry. Unless AEG got some tax break that's not been reported in the media.
"And do you really think a politician or someone in government understands our interests and can advocate for them?" Yes. One time-tested solution is to get active in civics and engage the system; figure out how to walk that line between militancy and reputability. That's why it's cool to see people from punk backgrounds getting involved in politics;
i'd bet the conversations that happen because there's a line of communication between city hall and the music community does result in better policy, like exempting the small clubs from admissions taxes--that's a really great move that supports the little guys while still making the corporate guys pay.
43
What's his plan for all ages shows? We need to let more kids in without acting as though standing next to an adult with a beer with turn the kid in to an alcoholic.
44
@42, you kinda missed my point. You said that office advocates for our interests, all the issues I brought up were important issues facing the music community where a lot of people feel the Office of Film and Music did not advocate for our interests. I totally realize they don't create these out of date and music community unfriendly laws and regulations, but I do expect them to bend the mayor's and legislature's ears on these issues and advocate for the music community. It seems like with the Office and Nickels things got worse, not better. The press release Meinert sent out looked eerily similar to when he was supporting Nickels' music policies and plan, which pretty much backfired.
I hate big government. I hate wasting tax dollars on club regulators and commissions when the government should just leave clubs alone, and while librarians, nurses and doctors for the city are taking pay cuts and losing jobs. It's both a matter of wrong priorities in spending our tax dollars and big government interfering in our music community. Less is better. Government just isn't very successful at dealing with issues facing the music community, I'm not sure bolstering it's power and influence on these issues actually works in our best interest.
That said, I'm voting for McGinn. But I have red flags with all the city government involvement, regulation and watchful eye on our music community. Don't they have more important things to worry about?
I hate big government. I hate wasting tax dollars on club regulators and commissions when the government should just leave clubs alone, and while librarians, nurses and doctors for the city are taking pay cuts and losing jobs. It's both a matter of wrong priorities in spending our tax dollars and big government interfering in our music community. Less is better. Government just isn't very successful at dealing with issues facing the music community, I'm not sure bolstering it's power and influence on these issues actually works in our best interest.
That said, I'm voting for McGinn. But I have red flags with all the city government involvement, regulation and watchful eye on our music community. Don't they have more important things to worry about?
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