Line Out Music & the City at Night

 

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1
I don't know if the Seattle Freeze is in effect, but the bullshit detector of Taco Time employees certainly is. Mostly.
Posted by matt on October 18, 2010 at 9:26 AM
2
I've been here for three months. The Seattle Freeze is sorta true, but sorta isnt. Mostly, I think the Seattle Freeze is everyone wondering if there is a Seattle Freeze, thereby inadvertently causing a Seattle Freeze.
Posted by hereiswheremynamegoes on October 18, 2010 at 9:40 AM
3
PS: can't wait for my free haircut.
Posted by hereiswheremynamegoes on October 18, 2010 at 9:41 AM
Hernandez 4
@2 Yes, that is exactly it! I've seen many a recent transplant turn the Seattle Freeze from a mild curiosity into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Posted by Hernandez http://hernandezlist.blogspot.com on October 18, 2010 at 9:54 AM
5
I actually haven't had much trouble really getting to know people who've given me the time of day. My experience here is that most Seattlites will aggressively ignore/dismiss/reject strangers in social situations. Only extremely outgoing people or desperately alone people will talk to strangers in bars, at parties, or at social mixers. I mostly plow through it, but it can be pretty fucking dismaying, and I can't blame most transplants for coping with it by never going out alone or simply never going out at all.
Posted by keshmeshi on October 18, 2010 at 2:36 PM
6
So THAT's what people call it! As a former native (now in SF), I named it "The Overcast Phenomenon".
My description was more along the lines of: Meet people at a party/bar, have a great time/connection with said people, run into them the next day and are completely blown off.

This happened to me a number of times and I chalked it up to grey overcast skies making the eyeballs hurt and heightening shyness.

Oh Seattle, I miss ya...

Posted by LoDeeZee on October 18, 2010 at 4:01 PM
7
I've heard about the Seattle Freeze from several co-workers who moved here from other states. And particularly from those who come here from California. Here's what I've observed. If you come from the Mid-west and are overly friendly and super smiley, you will be ignored. We just don't like that here. If you come here from the East coast and let us know constantly how much cooler the east coast is, you will be ignored. If you come from California and all you do is bitch about the weather, we will ignore you. My advice to new-comers is, be quiet, be observant of the way Seattlites act and do the same. I hope I helped.
Posted by mama merz on October 18, 2010 at 4:14 PM
8
It's not that we don't want to invite outsiders to our parties. We're just afraid that they will make fun of us when they see our CD collections.
Posted by Shirt Jeff on October 18, 2010 at 4:36 PM
Liface 9
Are you guys (#5?) possibly misinterpreting the original definition of the "Seattle Freeze"? From what I understand, based on the original article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacific…), the Freeze does not mean that people aren't friendly. In fact, they're overly friendly, but won't go out of their way to BE your friend or invite you to their hangout group.
Posted by Liface on October 18, 2010 at 5:02 PM
10
@7,

To each their own, but that's not what I've observed at all. Overly aggressive people may be more likely to be blown off, but, despite originally being from California, I'm pretty much a quintessential Seattlite -- not pushy, bitchy, or creepily friendly. If I choose my social situations fairly well, I do okay, but I'll occasionally stumble into an event around here where, quite literally, half of the participants will give me the stink eye then pretend I'm not there and the other half will respond if spoken to, but the caliber of their responses and their body language scream "Fuck off!"

It's been my experience, however, that most of the people who constantly gripe about the Freeze are themselves guilty of that kind of antisocial bullshit, so it's generally not something I sympathize with.

Be the change you want to see in the world.
Posted by keshmeshi on October 18, 2010 at 5:05 PM
11
@9,

I can't say that I think that article is definitive. MY experience with trying to make friends here is having to deal with profound unfriendliness to anyone people don't know extremely well -- the cliquishness that I've heard locals complain about since even before I moved to Seattle.
Posted by keshmeshi on October 18, 2010 at 5:09 PM
Will in Seattle 12
There is a Seattle Freeze. But a lot of it depends on your lifestyle and your social group.

Pony's a great place, and has very little freeze, so good start.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on October 18, 2010 at 5:18 PM
veo_ 13
It's a well known local fact that the only time to eat Taco Time is when you're totally trashed. In fact, only redeeming item on the menu is mexi-nuggets; in fact, they're so good they justify the very existence of Taco Time.

I double dog dare DEREK ERDMAN to get drunk, procure some hot and fresh mexi nuggets and not admit they're fucking awesome.

Also, if he's looking for a more palatable fast-food mexican-style joint, he would be well advised to go to Memo's on The Ave.
Posted by veo_ on October 18, 2010 at 5:22 PM
14
There is a Frisco Freeze in Tacoma.
Posted by record collectors are pretentious a**holes on October 18, 2010 at 5:31 PM
15
Now I'm wondering if the more common Seattle Freeze trope (Seattlites are nice to your face, but don't want anything to do with you) is due to people not picking up on social cues and body language as readily as I do. When someone is sending "I hate you, I hate you, I HATE YOUR FUCKING GUTS" non-verbal signals to me, I always pick up on it, but I guess other people don't and are therefore shocked when their overtures of friendship are rejected.

I guess this explains some awkward encounters I've had where my extremely restrained politeness to other people was misinterpreted as genuine friendliness. Seriously, guys, take a class on body language or something. Please.
Posted by keshmeshi on October 18, 2010 at 5:33 PM
Will in Seattle 16
@13 good advice.

@15 or you could be more real. that's what they do elsewhere.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on October 18, 2010 at 5:57 PM
derek_erdman 17
Tonight's plan will include getting boozed up and eating "mexi nuggets". I will tell you how it goes.

My point was to say that it doesn't even seem that a "freeze" exists. People should just stay home and watch 24 Lost True Mad Blood Men on DVD if they think people are unfriendly.
Posted by derek_erdman http://www.derekerdman.com on October 18, 2010 at 6:14 PM
18
I am not frozen and would like to come to your warming party so as to be even less so. Also, I enjoyed your description of the Sandwich Shop very much. HI AND WELCOME!
Posted by Bethany Jean Clement on October 18, 2010 at 6:50 PM
derek_erdman 19
Frisko Freeze:
http://www.derekerdman.com/1/FFC.jpg

Thanks, Bethany Jean Clement!
Posted by derek_erdman http://www.derekerdman.com on October 18, 2010 at 7:08 PM
ly_yng 20
@7 What's wrong with being friendly and super-smiley?! In what world is that not pro-social behavior?

@Column, Derek, I look forward to your next installment immensely.
Posted by ly_yng on October 18, 2010 at 7:26 PM
21
Love the column. Looking forward to more and the free haircut.

The Seattle Freeze is true and in full effect. I've been here for over a year, going out and trying to meet people, but haven't managed to keep anyone on as a friend. There is no way to explain it without sounding bitchy/whiny/psycho/crazy/over-bearing but Seattleites become too busy in their own lives to take an interest in others' lives they haven't already been involved with for years and years.

My Midwesterness has not been much of a turn-off, mostly because I found people in the Midwest to be too nice and nosy in the first place. But the standoffishness here is just ridiculous. Makes me want to move real bad.

Great city, but shitty people.
Posted by catherineblake on October 18, 2010 at 8:14 PM
22
@20- "What's wrong with being friendly and super-smiley?! In what world is that not pro-social behavior?"

The civilized world. You either come off as fake, insane, or one of those chipmunk-type people.

Speaking for myself and as an Northeasterner, people in Seattle (also the rest of the West Coast, the Mid-West, and the South East) are all friendly to your face no matter how they feel about you. It took some getting used to, since growing up I learned that only con artists (and other salespeople) and schizophrenics act like that. When you don't know someone, you have no emotional investment in them, and so a blank face is an honest face. A smile means you're trying to get something from them.
Posted by dwight moody on October 18, 2010 at 10:25 PM
23
I cant wait till this guy gets funny...
Posted by fag on October 18, 2010 at 10:50 PM
24
"I'm rap master Maurice and i'm here to say,
You wouldn't hate Seattle if you saw it my way!"

Sorry...i had to. I miss TBTL...but i get my dose of Luke on Dori Monson's show. You need to stop asking drunken bar-hoppers where to get sushi and hanging out where tight pants flock together. Good food and good fashion can not co-exist. I think i need to show you some of my favorite places.

*joy

joishii.yelp.com
Posted by joishii on October 19, 2010 at 1:21 AM
25
We're not FROZEN, we're just better than everyone else. It's totally a burden.
Posted by thejam on October 19, 2010 at 10:42 AM
kitschnsync 26
I think @8 explains the Freeze succintly.

The largest contributing factor to it, I think, is the inferiority complex of many Seattleites. People try hard to be cooler/smarter than the next person here, and they are deathly afraid someone will see through their facade of pretensions.

It takes a while to get to know people genuinely for this reason. But once you get past the posturing, folks are basically the same.

Posted by kitschnsync on October 19, 2010 at 11:47 AM
27
Ah, this was refreshing.... and I love the visuals. Keep 'em coming.
Posted by PoorWIll http://www.whprwhilrecords.com on October 19, 2010 at 12:47 PM
28
First off, I'd also propose the Seattle thaw-- whereby you may find yourself good friends with someone months (years?) down the line whom at first you didn't think actually liked you.
Second. The freeze:

As someone who grew up here, moved away for 7 years and is back now, the freeze seems to be somewhat self-perpetuating. Part of what I've noticed (and over the last year I've met lots of people who moved here from other places) is that many people who move here moved to get away from bigger/busier places but still wanted to go to shows/see art/live in generally liberal environs.

So it would kind of make sense that not wanting to be "bothered" would translate/be interpreted as unfriendliness. Add on top of that we're a fairly bookish city, mix in some of #8 and some of people just plain THINKING there is a Seattle freeze when they go into a bar they've never been before and don't leave with new friends. . .
I've also heard it said that due to the passive-aggressive/whateverness of Seattleites we are, for better or worse, more forgiving of flaky friends.
Posted by gi on October 19, 2010 at 4:33 PM
29
I recently visited Seattle with a friend and we thought it was a post war ghost town.
Posted by just visiting on October 19, 2010 at 8:01 PM
josh 30
re @28 & self-selection, I thought this little bit from Freedom was cute: "He became another data point in the American experiment of self-government, an experiment statistically skewed from the outset, because it wasn’t the people with sociable genes who fled the crowded Old World for the new continent; it was the people who didn’t get along well with others."
Posted by josh http://www.sciencevsromance.net on October 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM
31
Oh man, I love you Derek whoever .. 1) you mentioned Yelp (good boy! That's the best way to discover a new city), 2) you live on Alki and 3) you aren't afraid to mention the "Seattle Freeze", which is actually the most annoying phrase ever uttered in the PNW and if said in person, you may be punched by a Seattlite. You've got balls.
*For the record -- Taco Time is fresh, delicious, and the service is always good.
*People not allowed to leave their couches on the street as garbage? Hmm, and that's a bad thing?
*Alki Mail and Dispatch is right up your alley. I'm assuming you were sitting in the McDonalds on California a little past Admiral, which is funny because you were literally 2 blocks from a post office (a little further south on California Ave). It has a huge mural on the wall; look for it next time.
And finally, I absolutely love it here. I think it's the best place in the country (and yes, that includes the intelligent and polite people).
Posted by SaraJean on October 20, 2010 at 6:19 PM
32
Are there a lot of workaholic introverts in this city?

Yes.

Might that contribute to the "freeze?"

Maybe.

I don't think the freeze is real. But then, I'm a workaholic introvert, so don't take my word for it.
Posted by slackerina on October 21, 2010 at 9:29 AM
33
You are hilarious! I can't wait to read more posts.

About the whole S.F thing, (I won't say it because it makes me want to vomit) good peeps are hard to come by no matter where you go. People are unfriendly and fake friendly everywhere, not just in Seattle. There are cool ass folks and then there are just plain assholes that are overly sensitive and critical about everything. If a person is unable to make friend after a few visits to the local pub and then blames it on stuff like a city, weather, Sasquatch or wateverthefuk - it's obvious as to why they cannot make friends in the first place. And to even go so far as to give it a name?! Come guys, just come on.

As a rule of thumb, don't be a jerk and other people who are also non-jerks will like you. There are a few magical lines that always seem to work for me and here's one... "Hey, do you wanna go get a beer?" or "This band is playing at so-and-so, wanna go check them out?" It's weird but it kinda works.

I am sure you won't have a problem making buddies cause you have something called a sense of humor. If the Seattle Freeze was about lack of humor, I'd jump on board in a second...too bad it's not. Hope to see you around! :)
Posted by Hightop Stan on October 22, 2010 at 7:52 PM
34
You are hilarious! I can't wait to read more posts.

About the whole S.F thing, (I won't say it because it makes me want to vomit) good peeps are hard to come by no matter where you go. People are unfriendly and fake friendly everywhere, not just in Seattle. There are cool ass folks and then there are just plain assholes that are overly sensitive and critical about everything. If a person is unable to make friend after a few visits to the local pub and then blames it on stuff like a city, weather, Sasquatch or wateverthefuk - it's obvious as to why they cannot make friends in the first place. And to even go so far as to give it a name?! Come guys, just come on.

As a rule of thumb, don't be a jerk and other people who are also non-jerks will like you. There are a few magical lines that always seem to work for me and here's one... "Hey, do you wanna go get a beer?" or "This band is playing at so-and-so, wanna go check them out?" It's weird but it kinda works.

I am sure you won't have a problem making buddies cause you have something called a sense of humor. If the Seattle Freeze was about lack of humor, I'd jump on board in a second...too bad it's not. Hope to see you around! :)
Posted by Hightop Stan on October 22, 2010 at 7:54 PM

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