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Tuesday, August 30, 2011
News Jon Russell of the Head and the Heart Allegedly Attacks Sound Technician
Posted by Grant Brissey on Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:15 AM
Sound engineer Doug Krebs wrote in a Facebook post on Saturday [emphasis his]:
... Last Tuesday night I was violently attacked by the lead singer of this band, Jon Russell. This was after a performance he attended of his recent tourmates'... He did not know who I was—this could have happened to anyone. This attack was without any provocation... After approaching me at my work station and rudely accusing me of not being attentive or qualified for my job (which everyone in attendance refutes completely) I calmly asked him to leave. He angrily demanded to know what my name was. I told him I was not going to talk with him and asked him to leave once more. Thinking it was over, I went back to resetting the board. Out of nowhere he attacked me and began to choke me, pulling me out of the sound booth and digging his fingernails into the back of my neck while pushing his thumbs into the front of my throat. After his friends noticed he was attacking me, they grabbed him and removed him from the club kicking and screaming. All of his friends apologized profusely saying he has a bad temper and was intoxicated.
I contacted Krebs early this morning and spoke with him on the phone in the afternoon. "My only concern is that he gets some help," he said. "I feel like if no one says anything, it could happen again down the road and end up really bad." Krebs says he's not angry with Russell, just concerned about something worse happening.
Late tonight, Sub Pop issued a statement from Russell:
I deeply regret and am ashamed of my uncharacteristic behavior last week. I have expressed as much to the owner of the establishment and attempted to apologize to the person who I hurt, face-to-face. And while my apology can't erase my actions or make up for anything, really, it is sincere. I am truly sorry.
More details as they emerge.
Originally posted at 11:00 pm, 8/29
1
Interesting to see if any clubs will ban Head and the Heart.
Some bands get banned, even when it's the club's security that provokes the incident. Then, later, when charges are dropped and the band is completely vindicated of any wrongdoing, they are allowed to play again.
Here, we got a guy attacking a sound engineer WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION.
Shouldn't all the clubs in town join together and ban this band? Like they did to that other band, that was falsely accused?
Some bands get banned, even when it's the club's security that provokes the incident. Then, later, when charges are dropped and the band is completely vindicated of any wrongdoing, they are allowed to play again.
Here, we got a guy attacking a sound engineer WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION.
Shouldn't all the clubs in town join together and ban this band? Like they did to that other band, that was falsely accused?
6
Where was this? I've had Doug as a sound engineer before, at the Tractor. Super nice, totally professional, and pretty great sound from what I remember.
9
Oh man, I heard about this...My friend's band was playing that show. As if HATH needed any more reason to be a joke in this town.
11
Oh, he's choking people? Sadly appropriate considering that "choking" describes his current career trajectory.
What a fucknozzle.
What a fucknozzle.
12
Aren't they supposed to be Christian?
But because they're Sub Pop. Nothing will happen to them?
Shouldn't they be banned from playing Bumbershoot? If this was *that other band* or some metal band, they would be banned. But because they're supposedly Christian and on Sub Pop, nothing is going to happen to them?
Did Krebs press charges?
But because they're Sub Pop. Nothing will happen to them?
Shouldn't they be banned from playing Bumbershoot? If this was *that other band* or some metal band, they would be banned. But because they're supposedly Christian and on Sub Pop, nothing is going to happen to them?
Did Krebs press charges?
14
Aside from complete insanity, I don't know why anyone would attack Doug. I've never had a sound tech that was as skilled, easy to work with, and kind.
15
An excerpt from Sub Pop's expanded explanation, to be issued later today:
"In that moment, Mr. Russell truly realized that he had devoted his entire artistic output to creating the lifestyle soundtrack for Belltown condo dwellers who take City Arts Magazine seriously and name check his band as proof that they 'love the local music scene' and, in a futile attempt at proving that he was not in fact the most boring, middle of the road musician imaginable, his body made the ill advised decision to prove how "rock'n'roll" it was by screaming "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM!?!!?", having a violent seizure and attacking the person nearest to it who made his living by quietly providing quality, highly competent support to the local music community."
"In that moment, Mr. Russell truly realized that he had devoted his entire artistic output to creating the lifestyle soundtrack for Belltown condo dwellers who take City Arts Magazine seriously and name check his band as proof that they 'love the local music scene' and, in a futile attempt at proving that he was not in fact the most boring, middle of the road musician imaginable, his body made the ill advised decision to prove how "rock'n'roll" it was by screaming "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM!?!!?", having a violent seizure and attacking the person nearest to it who made his living by quietly providing quality, highly competent support to the local music community."
16
Also, if his own ear for musical quality is any indicator, I'm now seriously thinking about bringing a caged Jon Russell around to every show I play from now on as a barometer of sound mixing excellence.
"OK guys, Russell's frothing at the mouth and trying to claw at anyone who comes near him - I think we've got this mix juuuussst about perfect!"
"OK guys, Russell's frothing at the mouth and trying to claw at anyone who comes near him - I think we've got this mix juuuussst about perfect!"
17
Invoke the Mad Rad precedent. Seriously. A stilted apology issued from behind a record label means absolutely fuck-all. There needs to be some kind of punitive action because this type of behavior cannot be tolerated. This guy easily could have, and probably should have, been arrested.
18
This must be a new plan of theirs to combat the fact that their music puts the audience to sleep.
22
rule #2
Dont act like a rock star unless you ACTUALLY rock.
im betting John Tesh could eat this dude's @ss for breakfast.
well, I guess now we know who the "Fart" is in "The Wet and the Fart"
Dont act like a rock star unless you ACTUALLY rock.
im betting John Tesh could eat this dude's @ss for breakfast.
well, I guess now we know who the "Fart" is in "The Wet and the Fart"
27
Trying to decide if this trumps that asshole who yelled at the audience member for not standing up at a Triple Door show, and then discovered the guy was in a wheelchair.
29
Who gives a shit. It's cool when other bands do shit like this, but when a Seattle band who Seattle loves to lash out at does something in a moment of volatility, you all start making it about the "shitty music". It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with making kids famous too fast and then lashing back at them for getting famous. It's just people making some songs and traveling around. Instead of making it something more than that, do something for yourself. You know it's not easy. Get in the van. *cue mispeld "fag" coments
30
@29 TL;DR: "I have to make music for people AND travel AND be expected NOT to assault someone for no good reason when I get drunk? Life is hard!"
33
@29 I assume that whole comment was a joke, and the ending was just icing on the cake? I'd never heard this band, but I decided to listen to one of their songs after reading this. They fucking suck.
35
I had never heard this band either. Their music is as forgettable as this incident. What the fuck happened to sub pop to be signing this country fried post-coldplay trash? Are they just scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to land a Target commercial or something?
After touring every year for the past five years, I've completely lost all patience with this prima donna bullshit. That guy can go fuck himself.
After touring every year for the past five years, I've completely lost all patience with this prima donna bullshit. That guy can go fuck himself.
36
I'd like to hear some clubs, sound engineers, and security guards chime in on this.
If it had been a club, with actually security, this guy would have been picking his teeth up on Ballard Ave, and he would have deserved every bit of it.
I hate hate, but I hate douche bags even more and they need to be punched, preferably, in their douche bag faces.
They've already sold a song to American Express so, hopefully, the other band members are investing wisely while their still making money.
If it had been a club, with actually security, this guy would have been picking his teeth up on Ballard Ave, and he would have deserved every bit of it.
I hate hate, but I hate douche bags even more and they need to be punched, preferably, in their douche bag faces.
They've already sold a song to American Express so, hopefully, the other band members are investing wisely while their still making money.
37
@35: I think you'll appreciate this:
http://beenlookingforthemagic.tumblr.com…
How to Tour in a Band or Whatever
by Thor Harris
1-Don’t Complain. Bitching, moaning, whining is tour cancer. If something is wrong fix it or shut the fuck up you fucking dick. goddamn.
2-If you fart, claim it.
3-Don’t Lose shit. Everybody loses shit. Don’t fucking do it. Asshole.
4-Don’t fuck anyone in the band. There are tons of people to fuck who are not in this band. Dumbass.
5-If you feel like shit all the time, drink less beer at the gig. You will play better & feel better. What are you… a child? Some have the endurance for self abuse. Most don’t.
6-Remember the soundman’s name. He will do a better job.
7- Eat oranges. Cures constipation & prevents colds.
8-Masturbate. Duh… Where & when? Be creative. You’re an artist right?
9-If YOU can’t carry your suitcase 3 blocks, it’s too goddamn big.
10-Respect public space in the van. Don’t clutter, you Fuck.
11-If you borrow something, return it. Not Fucked Up.
12-Do not let the promoter dick you or talk you out of the guarantee. If there were not enuf people there, it’s their fault.
13- Driver picks the music.
14-One navigator only (usually sitting shotgun). Everyone else shut the fuck up.
15-Soundcheck is for checking sounds. Shut the fuck up while everyone else is checking.
16-Don’t wander off. Let someone know where you are.
17-Clean up after yourself. What are you… a goddamn toddler?
18-Touring makes everyone bi-polar. Ride the waves as best you can and remember, moods pass. So don’t make any snap decisions or declarations when you are drunk or insane.
19-Fast food is Poison.
20-The guestlist is for friends, family & people you might want to fuck. Everyone else can pay. They have day jobs.
21- Don’t evaluate your whole life while you’re sitting in a janitor closet waiting to go on. You think you’re above having shitty days at work? Shut up & do your goddamn job.
This list was written under the influence of lots of esspresso & anti-depressants while on tour w/ such greats as Shearwater, Swans, Smog, Lisa Germano, Angels of Light, Bill Callahan & many more. I hope this list will help you get along w/ your co-workers whatever your job is. Contributions to the list by Jordan Geiger, Kimberly Burke, Brian Orloff, Brian Phillips Celebrity Gang Bang, Kevin Schneider, Jonathan Meiburg, Michael Gira and some other folks.
Thanks for not being an asshole, Thor Harris
More...
http://beenlookingforthemagic.tumblr.com…
How to Tour in a Band or Whatever
by Thor Harris
1-Don’t Complain. Bitching, moaning, whining is tour cancer. If something is wrong fix it or shut the fuck up you fucking dick. goddamn.
2-If you fart, claim it.
3-Don’t Lose shit. Everybody loses shit. Don’t fucking do it. Asshole.
4-Don’t fuck anyone in the band. There are tons of people to fuck who are not in this band. Dumbass.
5-If you feel like shit all the time, drink less beer at the gig. You will play better & feel better. What are you… a child? Some have the endurance for self abuse. Most don’t.
6-Remember the soundman’s name. He will do a better job.
7- Eat oranges. Cures constipation & prevents colds.
8-Masturbate. Duh… Where & when? Be creative. You’re an artist right?
9-If YOU can’t carry your suitcase 3 blocks, it’s too goddamn big.
10-Respect public space in the van. Don’t clutter, you Fuck.
11-If you borrow something, return it. Not Fucked Up.
12-Do not let the promoter dick you or talk you out of the guarantee. If there were not enuf people there, it’s their fault.
13- Driver picks the music.
14-One navigator only (usually sitting shotgun). Everyone else shut the fuck up.
15-Soundcheck is for checking sounds. Shut the fuck up while everyone else is checking.
16-Don’t wander off. Let someone know where you are.
17-Clean up after yourself. What are you… a goddamn toddler?
18-Touring makes everyone bi-polar. Ride the waves as best you can and remember, moods pass. So don’t make any snap decisions or declarations when you are drunk or insane.
19-Fast food is Poison.
20-The guestlist is for friends, family & people you might want to fuck. Everyone else can pay. They have day jobs.
21- Don’t evaluate your whole life while you’re sitting in a janitor closet waiting to go on. You think you’re above having shitty days at work? Shut up & do your goddamn job.
This list was written under the influence of lots of esspresso & anti-depressants while on tour w/ such greats as Shearwater, Swans, Smog, Lisa Germano, Angels of Light, Bill Callahan & many more. I hope this list will help you get along w/ your co-workers whatever your job is. Contributions to the list by Jordan Geiger, Kimberly Burke, Brian Orloff, Brian Phillips Celebrity Gang Bang, Kevin Schneider, Jonathan Meiburg, Michael Gira and some other folks.
Thanks for not being an asshole, Thor Harris
38
@ 35, while the band's music is forgettable, assaulting a club employee where you are being paid to play, is not. As a touring musician you should be on board with that.
Had it been a shit hole, like The Whskey a Go Go, where the employees treats bands like shit on the bottom of their shoe, it may have been a different story, but the Tractor has been providing a place for bands to play, in the town, for years and they deserve the respect of any band, local or touring. You right on one point, though. Fuck this guy.
Had it been a shit hole, like The Whskey a Go Go, where the employees treats bands like shit on the bottom of their shoe, it may have been a different story, but the Tractor has been providing a place for bands to play, in the town, for years and they deserve the respect of any band, local or touring. You right on one point, though. Fuck this guy.
40
When you're liable to somebody for assault, and you're man enough to admit it, in writing, and apologize, that's gotta count for something. If Krebs was any less of a nice guy -- and I, for one, nowhere near as nice a guy as Krebs apparently is -- he could be collecting royalties from this band for the rest of its career based on this incident.
So, good on Krebs for letting pass what I'm not sure I could personally let pass. And to Jon Russell, I'd say, do whatever it takes, and I mean whatever it takes to make sure this never happens again, and good luck to you at it.
So, good on Krebs for letting pass what I'm not sure I could personally let pass. And to Jon Russell, I'd say, do whatever it takes, and I mean whatever it takes to make sure this never happens again, and good luck to you at it.
41
Woah, can't believe anyone is defending his actions! He fucking strangled him, which ACTUALLY means he tried to take away his ability to breathe, which actually means he tried to FUCKING KILL him. It's not like he tried to punch the dude, he tried to fucking KILL him. He's a maniac. Get him into a mental hospital stat.
44
Regardless of whether or not their music is any good, the problem is the behavior itself. If I wandered in to a venue, got shitfaced drunk and choked out the soundman, I would expect to end up either a) in the back of a cop car, or more likely b) bleeding in the street. I would also expect to be banned from that venue and possibly others, not only as a spectator but as a performer. That might not matter that much for HATH, but the fact remains this guy got off relatively easy, and people generally don't stop behaving like assholes unless there are consequences involved.
45
Anyone who blames their anger issues on drinking is an asshole. And assaulting a club employee for no reason should be enough to get this guy banned from other venues around town. I've not heard a note of his band's music, but after this incident I would not want him in my club.
48
Anyone else find it strange that NO ONE from the Stranger or the local music scene is saying anything about this incident, other than posting the story?
50
@44 "Regardless of whether or not their music is any good" - That's my point. This should not be made out to be about the music. It has nothing to do with that. The whole thing is unacceptable to be sure, and consequences are warranted. This incident is an isolated mistake and if you loved the band you would forgive the act and accept the kindness on Doug's part to just let it rest. It shouldn't be different just because you hate the band.
For any band, a venue feels like work (work that they choose and generally love) and a frustrating show the band isn't even playing can bring to mind all of those times the audience flipped you off, threw drinks at you, or made personal something that never should have been personal. Or the sound person went outside for a smoke while your monitors were feeding back even though you were paying him $200 for the night and you walked with $20 in gas money to get you 400 miles. Sadly, the dude in the back who yells "Freebird" at every fucking show or throws beer at the stage is never the one to get his ass kicked. The band somehow saves that for the nice, unassuming sound person on a night off and then regrets it. It's difficult, yes (@30), and is no excuse. I'm just saying it's not about the music.
You get out of a show what you put in. And sometimes other people ruin it for everyone.
For the band, audience and staff: Don't be a dick at shows. Don't strangle people.
For any band, a venue feels like work (work that they choose and generally love) and a frustrating show the band isn't even playing can bring to mind all of those times the audience flipped you off, threw drinks at you, or made personal something that never should have been personal. Or the sound person went outside for a smoke while your monitors were feeding back even though you were paying him $200 for the night and you walked with $20 in gas money to get you 400 miles. Sadly, the dude in the back who yells "Freebird" at every fucking show or throws beer at the stage is never the one to get his ass kicked. The band somehow saves that for the nice, unassuming sound person on a night off and then regrets it. It's difficult, yes (@30), and is no excuse. I'm just saying it's not about the music.
You get out of a show what you put in. And sometimes other people ruin it for everyone.
For the band, audience and staff: Don't be a dick at shows. Don't strangle people.
52
Sorry @ 50, but this guy wants to be a celebrity.
They are up and coming, outside of Seattle, but they've already sold one song to American Express and will do anything for publicity or attention.
Whether they want good or bad publicity, doesn't matter at this point.
People in this town take musicians way too seriously, and this is a serious situation. He's a loose cannon and deserves no one's respect, as he's shown little respect for the scene that fueled them the the little bit of fame they will encounter before he implodes and takes the band down with them.
If I knew what he looked like and I saw him in public he'd get an earful, and would, most likely, react violently.
A half assed apology from his record label changes nothing.
This town needs to stop coddling assholes. The next time he acts out I hope someone punches him in the throat. I would.
They are up and coming, outside of Seattle, but they've already sold one song to American Express and will do anything for publicity or attention.
Whether they want good or bad publicity, doesn't matter at this point.
People in this town take musicians way too seriously, and this is a serious situation. He's a loose cannon and deserves no one's respect, as he's shown little respect for the scene that fueled them the the little bit of fame they will encounter before he implodes and takes the band down with them.
If I knew what he looked like and I saw him in public he'd get an earful, and would, most likely, react violently.
A half assed apology from his record label changes nothing.
This town needs to stop coddling assholes. The next time he acts out I hope someone punches him in the throat. I would.
53
@48...what more do you want 'the Stranger' to say? Eric Grandy wrote a bit on it via the weekly. It's just some shit that went down, it's not really the Stranger's place to 'weigh in'....what is really bizarre however, to my mind, is that Sub Pop has ABSOLUTELY no reason to have their name attached to this except for dude hiding behind Sub Pop to make his 'statement'....dude apologizing has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING whatsofucking ever to do with his band's record label.
He should have made that statement via HIMSELF. His band was not involved. It was not their show.
Shit is on HIM not Sub Pop or his band
He should have made that statement via HIMSELF. His band was not involved. It was not their show.
Shit is on HIM not Sub Pop or his band
55
Furthermore, if I go out, get shithammered and do some unforgivable asshole maneuver, when I wake up the next day and it dawns on me that I tried to rip a guy's neck clean off his face...I get to own that guilt myself.
Why would I expect anyone else to attach their name to that shit?
Why would I expect anyone else to attach their name to that shit?
57
Is there any irony in threatening violence on a member of a band you don't like, or are those comments meant to be taken at face value?
58
Get some help, huh?
Oh, the age of the rehabilitation industrial complex. Disappear for a month. Feign contrition and get a little more discreet about you leisure habits. Get a little more sneaky about how you sort people out. That's all that shit does. It's a trendy fucking orthodoxy not a magic wand.
Anyway, whatever. Run of the mill douche on douche violence.
Nothing to see here and not a fuck was given that day.
Oh, the age of the rehabilitation industrial complex. Disappear for a month. Feign contrition and get a little more discreet about you leisure habits. Get a little more sneaky about how you sort people out. That's all that shit does. It's a trendy fucking orthodoxy not a magic wand.
Anyway, whatever. Run of the mill douche on douche violence.
Nothing to see here and not a fuck was given that day.
59
Seems like Grandy spent a lot of time typing when all he, really, meant to say was, "Eh, who cares." Other than trying to make it about security guards, which is weird since the Tractor doesn't have any and none were involved in the incident.
Mario, you may be right about it having nothing to do with his band or label, other than the fact that they made it their problem by issuing a statement on his behalf.
More coddling of assholes.
Mario, you may be right about it having nothing to do with his band or label, other than the fact that they made it their problem by issuing a statement on his behalf.
More coddling of assholes.
60
@57 Stop making excuses. Your failed music career isn't our fault. This guy needs his fucking teeth knocked out.
65
Blah blah blah
DOUG KREBS IS A GREAT SOUNDMAN! SEATTLE
IS LUCKY TO HAVE HIM. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK
MR. KREBS!
Love,
Chipsy
DOUG KREBS IS A GREAT SOUNDMAN! SEATTLE
IS LUCKY TO HAVE HIM. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK
MR. KREBS!
Love,
Chipsy
67
'#48: The "local music scene" is huge; a few people from it have commented on this posting, either anonymously or with their name attached.
This band is stupid. I don't fucking think of them as members of the Seattle music community cause they just seem like a bunch of eager, shiny kids from the suburbs who started playing music and made it big. They are going to continue to make money and get even bigger than they already are.
This guy probably won't get kicked out of the band. This band probably won't get dropped from their label. This will largely go unnoticed. And this sucks for a million reasons, but mostly because this Doug Krebs guy sounds like the nicest dude ever for not taking this any further than a totally level-headed facebook note.
This Jon guy is a giant flaming turd. He deserves some tough consequences.
Also, I've only heard 10 seconds of one of their songs and it was the dumbest music I've ever heard. I grew up being forced to listen to praise music, and I would never voluntarily listen to that shit ever again.
But it doesn't matter, they'll probably be playing the superbowl next year.
This band is stupid. I don't fucking think of them as members of the Seattle music community cause they just seem like a bunch of eager, shiny kids from the suburbs who started playing music and made it big. They are going to continue to make money and get even bigger than they already are.
This guy probably won't get kicked out of the band. This band probably won't get dropped from their label. This will largely go unnoticed. And this sucks for a million reasons, but mostly because this Doug Krebs guy sounds like the nicest dude ever for not taking this any further than a totally level-headed facebook note.
This Jon guy is a giant flaming turd. He deserves some tough consequences.
Also, I've only heard 10 seconds of one of their songs and it was the dumbest music I've ever heard. I grew up being forced to listen to praise music, and I would never voluntarily listen to that shit ever again.
But it doesn't matter, they'll probably be playing the superbowl next year.
68
@52 - So, selling to an advertisement is fuel for fire if anything negative comes out about a band? I AGREE. Yet another reason for bands to find other ways to finance tours and recordings. I've been saying this to bands for a long time. You don't know how it is going to affect you when you sell your songs to corporate advertisers. One Amex commercial makes a conversation like this turn into "but they've already sold one song to American Express and will do anything for publicity or attention" - rather than talking about the real issue of a person doing something regrettable. Selling the ad allows no room for apologies. Yet, people will still try to say that "bands have a hard time these days making money" and "it's just a necessary evil." I will always contend that selling art for ads will, in the end, make it difficult to defend any other action in the future. Now, go tell all your favorite bands to stop peddling corporate shit, and keep (or build) their credibility.
69
@68 You are just beyond retarded. You should have "given up the dream" a long time ago, because in all likelihood, you suck balls.
70
@68 that is the dumbest thing I've ever read. How do you suggest bands find "other ways to finance tours and recordings"?
CD sales? That ship sailed like 10 years ago.
Merch sales? Do you have any idea how much fucking money you have to invest in merch before you can sell it?
Concert revenue? Really dude?
OH NO THIS BAND 'SOLD OUT' SO THAT THEY COULD EAT AND MAYBE AFFORD TO RECORD ANOTHER ALBUM SOMEWHERE THAT ISN'T ON GARAGE BAND! SHUUUUUUUUN. That's some bullshit. Anyone who thinks less of a band because they let a corporation use their song for a commercial so they could make a living is a snob and a fucking idiot.
CD sales? That ship sailed like 10 years ago.
Merch sales? Do you have any idea how much fucking money you have to invest in merch before you can sell it?
Concert revenue? Really dude?
OH NO THIS BAND 'SOLD OUT' SO THAT THEY COULD EAT AND MAYBE AFFORD TO RECORD ANOTHER ALBUM SOMEWHERE THAT ISN'T ON GARAGE BAND! SHUUUUUUUUN. That's some bullshit. Anyone who thinks less of a band because they let a corporation use their song for a commercial so they could make a living is a snob and a fucking idiot.
71
This reminds me of when Jack White attacked Jason Von Bondie, although the circumstance/ outcome was totally different.
If mtv starts to investigate, it's time to get the fuck out of this town.
If mtv starts to investigate, it's time to get the fuck out of this town.
72
Re-do on that last part: Anyone who thinks less of a band for licensing their music to not-generally-deplorable organizations so they can make a living is a snob and a fucking idiot.
73
I'm with #68, and I will snob all over you.
If you're pushing some whiny "how am I gonna eat" bullshit, maybe you should get a fucking job or write better songs.
If you're pushing some whiny "how am I gonna eat" bullshit, maybe you should get a fucking job or write better songs.
74
I'm not a musician, so this really has nothing to do with me specifically, but my head's far enough out of my ass to know that expecting newer indie bands to be able to make a living without any kind of licensing is idiotic.
75
It's idiotic for newer indie bands to expect to make a living playing music. That ship set sail, friend.
77
So glad that all of you who "don't care about" their music at all have the time to fervently debate over the actions of someone you "don't care about".
If it were someone from some "underground" band, everyone would be upset about it and telling them they should "seek help". I guess I forgot that if you dislike someone's creation, you automatically have to hate the person themselves.
I wholeheartedly agree that this is viciously out of line, but calm your shit down. If the victim (you know, the person impacted more than anyone here) can be this docile about it, why on earth can't any of you?
If it were someone from some "underground" band, everyone would be upset about it and telling them they should "seek help". I guess I forgot that if you dislike someone's creation, you automatically have to hate the person themselves.
I wholeheartedly agree that this is viciously out of line, but calm your shit down. If the victim (you know, the person impacted more than anyone here) can be this docile about it, why on earth can't any of you?
78
This is unfortunate. Hopefully Doug is ok, sounds like he is. And hopefully Jon won't do this kind of thing again.
79
I was there and saw the whole thing happen. Jon was wrong and he knows it. He went down to thE Tractor the next day to apologize. I don't think that makes it ok but what upsets me more is the fact that the Stranger posted this at all. It's becoming a Seattle tabloid and it's sad to watch what was once a great newspaper degrade itself like this. (PS. not that it changes anyhting, but the sound was shit that night)
80
@70 : Now that I've successfully maneuvered this conversation into a place where I feel comfortable, I'd be happy to talk endlessly with you about the downsides of mixing art and advertising and save The Head & The Heart or their fans from the inanity of further comments in this thread. My mom doesn't get home until after 9:30 pm, so I have a couple of hours to talk with you - though I may need to take a couple of breaks to work on my next failed Garage Band hit.
My response was directly aimed at number 52 here (aka killmenow) after 52 stated that this band is interested only in gaining publicity or attention. So, I must ask. Do you, srslywut believe that the band (featured in this article) is interested only in gaining publicity or attention, or are you coming at this from a different angle? My conversations have been exhaustive with many bands - some of which you likely know and respect, some you likely know and don't respect, and some you likely don't know and therefore have no way of respecting or disrespecting. I stand by my statement that when an artist sells his or her songs to a company for advertisements, a subtle backlash will occur. It is the "new industry" because yes, the economy of being a musician is difficult in the new world of free downloads, merch investments, and a lack of concert revenue. But the money gained through advertising does not leave an artist immune to backlash when something regrettable happens. In fact, I stand by my previous statement, that the choice to move forward with the selling of an advertisement can and will become fuel for fire when undesired circumstances happen (as they always do) to the artist. 52 here chose to use an Amex commercial as a reason for disliking this band and questioning their integrity. Then again, you choose to use my desire to keep corporate money as far away from my art as a reason to infer that I am a "snob and a fucking idiot." I'm happy to allow you to believe what you will of me, it has nothing to do with what I do. But I won't allow another company to attach itself to me and be used as ammo against me. Many people dislike Tom Waits or Tom Petty or anyone else in the Tom Tom Club who has refrained from allowing their songs to be used in advertisements. But no one ever (rightly or otherwise) uses "sell-out" fuel when talking about a distaste for their music.
Alas, I'm convinced this isn't the place for this conversation. I gotta go heat up a Hot-Pocket.
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My response was directly aimed at number 52 here (aka killmenow) after 52 stated that this band is interested only in gaining publicity or attention. So, I must ask. Do you, srslywut believe that the band (featured in this article) is interested only in gaining publicity or attention, or are you coming at this from a different angle? My conversations have been exhaustive with many bands - some of which you likely know and respect, some you likely know and don't respect, and some you likely don't know and therefore have no way of respecting or disrespecting. I stand by my statement that when an artist sells his or her songs to a company for advertisements, a subtle backlash will occur. It is the "new industry" because yes, the economy of being a musician is difficult in the new world of free downloads, merch investments, and a lack of concert revenue. But the money gained through advertising does not leave an artist immune to backlash when something regrettable happens. In fact, I stand by my previous statement, that the choice to move forward with the selling of an advertisement can and will become fuel for fire when undesired circumstances happen (as they always do) to the artist. 52 here chose to use an Amex commercial as a reason for disliking this band and questioning their integrity. Then again, you choose to use my desire to keep corporate money as far away from my art as a reason to infer that I am a "snob and a fucking idiot." I'm happy to allow you to believe what you will of me, it has nothing to do with what I do. But I won't allow another company to attach itself to me and be used as ammo against me. Many people dislike Tom Waits or Tom Petty or anyone else in the Tom Tom Club who has refrained from allowing their songs to be used in advertisements. But no one ever (rightly or otherwise) uses "sell-out" fuel when talking about a distaste for their music.
Alas, I'm convinced this isn't the place for this conversation. I gotta go heat up a Hot-Pocket.
81
@72 this is a dumb tangent on a discussion that's already reached its logical end but here goes: any real conversation about art vs commerce is going to be too deep for a comment thread, but given their generally predatory behavior, I think credit card companies certainly qualify as deplorable.
82
To summarize: this jon guy is an asshole, and his band sucks. And the sound guy is cool, if a little too nice.
83
@80 my question was not rhetorical. How do you propose funding touring/recording without this extra cash? (note: I only mean bands in this day and age, what Tom Petty did or did not do is completely irrelevant, since he came from a time when record sales meant something).
Also, have any of the musicians you've discussed this with actually been licensed? how many of them said they regretted it?
I do not believe the Head and the Heart are seeking publicity and attention by any means necessary, or at least not enough to pull a stunt like that on purpose. As for licensing being fodder for intense hatred of a band, #52 or whomever you were addressing, that person is either in complete denial about how the industry works, or is in some shitty 'eXpErImEnTaL' band that can't get booked at a venue bigger than Healthy Times (no insult to HTFC, you are very nice people), and would likely remain on their high horse UNLESS they were given an opportunity to BE in the fucking shoes of Head And The Heart. (note to that other troll, it's not to be expected to do this for a living, but can you really begrudge THATH for taking advantage of the opportunity? Like you wouldn't drop everything to be a well-supported up-and-coming touring band?)
In summation, you shouldn't make your code for how you do business as a band based on whether people think you'll be cool or not for it. It's distracting and stupid. If that's so important, we might as well be arguing about whether or not it's cool for a Seattle musician to have a beard, or if having that beard makes him more or less legitimate. If you can use a few grand from licensing to record or fund a big tour, which will lead you to making more """"legitimate"""" money as an artist on your own terms....why the fuck not? If you're worried about coming "under fire" for something, don't be a musician, or any kind of artist at all. You will always be under fire.
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Also, have any of the musicians you've discussed this with actually been licensed? how many of them said they regretted it?
I do not believe the Head and the Heart are seeking publicity and attention by any means necessary, or at least not enough to pull a stunt like that on purpose. As for licensing being fodder for intense hatred of a band, #52 or whomever you were addressing, that person is either in complete denial about how the industry works, or is in some shitty 'eXpErImEnTaL' band that can't get booked at a venue bigger than Healthy Times (no insult to HTFC, you are very nice people), and would likely remain on their high horse UNLESS they were given an opportunity to BE in the fucking shoes of Head And The Heart. (note to that other troll, it's not to be expected to do this for a living, but can you really begrudge THATH for taking advantage of the opportunity? Like you wouldn't drop everything to be a well-supported up-and-coming touring band?)
In summation, you shouldn't make your code for how you do business as a band based on whether people think you'll be cool or not for it. It's distracting and stupid. If that's so important, we might as well be arguing about whether or not it's cool for a Seattle musician to have a beard, or if having that beard makes him more or less legitimate. If you can use a few grand from licensing to record or fund a big tour, which will lead you to making more """"legitimate"""" money as an artist on your own terms....why the fuck not? If you're worried about coming "under fire" for something, don't be a musician, or any kind of artist at all. You will always be under fire.
84
@83 convo is too big for this thread, but artist revenue streams are diverse. The Future of Music coalition is actually undertaking a big study on this topic soon.
I agree that "whether or not it's cool" is not a good criterion for decision making, and I wouldn't say that licensing is a good reason to hate a band. I just think it is worth pointing out wherever possible that credit card companies are horrible and predatory.
I agree that "whether or not it's cool" is not a good criterion for decision making, and I wouldn't say that licensing is a good reason to hate a band. I just think it is worth pointing out wherever possible that credit card companies are horrible and predatory.
87
@79: The lead singer of one of the more popular bands in the city tried to choke a sound guy at one of the most prominent venues in town. It's no longer hearsay, as the dude admitted it through his label. I'd say that qualifies as fodder for local music scene coverage, not tabloid trash.
88
yes his actions were undoubtly wrong, but i'm guessing we don't know the whole story, and just because one member of the band screws up doesn't mean that the whole band should be insulted. The Head and The Heart still has one of the best albums ever and is still full of beautiful people.
89
Faux-Christian Folkie attacks Sound Man at Faux-Christian Folk show. Jesus Fucking Christ, Seattle. Is this as good as it gets now?!?? The reach of Mars Hill is ENDLESS.
90
Just like the idiot hipster sings:
"Lord have mercy on my rough and rowdy ways"
Life imitates art.
"Lord have mercy on my rough and rowdy ways"
Life imitates art.
91
Jesus, before we jump down the THATH guy's throat, I must ask, am I really the only musician in Seattle that this Doug fella has treated like a total complete asshole when playing at the Tractor? My initial reaction when reading this story was, "dude pissed off the wrong guy, probably deserved it." I almost choked him out myself for fuck's sake.
93
#89 love the faux Christian, mars hill angle. what a bunch of bullshit the head and the heart are, as well as mars hill. both institutions suck balls.
96
I met this guy at a recent local music festival and I have to say, as much as I love the band's music I have a hard time even listening to it at all any more. He was totally disprespectful to another band while they were playing, to the small audience listening to them, and made a couple of passive-aggressive and rude comments to festival-goers that were fans of his as well. All-in-all the success he's experienced seems to have inflated his head. Or maybe he already had a smaller-than-average heart. Either way, he's a d-bag and I won't be supporting him any longer. Too bad, when such talent is swallowed by such an ugly ego.
99
Seattle fucking hates you, HATH. Get the fuck out of the town. Maybe they should be booed off stage next time?
100
Typical passive-aggressive little pussy who needs a good head kicking to realize that he's just another pussy bitch. Why aren't the cops involved? This is fucking criminal!
101
@91 and the other hipster trash defenders of "not cool behavior"...
this shithead "sticking up for his friends" by strangling consummate professionals trying to do their job is nothing more than a drunk @sshole slowly waking up to the fact that he and his friends' are TERRIBLE musicians that CANT PLAY no matter if the monitors go to 11, are made of solid gold and run by JC himself. to be more clear, i was there...the band playing was TERRIBLE.
Mr. Krebs has to deal with schmucks like this on a nightly basis and could easily have sued this miserable POS for every penny of his 15 minutes. and he could have torn him a new one if he wasnt such a nice guy. im betting he is enjoying all the "hometown love" these heroes are getting right about now...
this shithead "sticking up for his friends" by strangling consummate professionals trying to do their job is nothing more than a drunk @sshole slowly waking up to the fact that he and his friends' are TERRIBLE musicians that CANT PLAY no matter if the monitors go to 11, are made of solid gold and run by JC himself. to be more clear, i was there...the band playing was TERRIBLE.
Mr. Krebs has to deal with schmucks like this on a nightly basis and could easily have sued this miserable POS for every penny of his 15 minutes. and he could have torn him a new one if he wasnt such a nice guy. im betting he is enjoying all the "hometown love" these heroes are getting right about now...
102
Jon cracked. Its not really surprising. The guy has gotten less sleep this month than any of us get in 3 days.
I have played the Tractor and the sound was great. The sound guy was nice enough, but I can envision the scene unfolding. Jon mentions something like, "Hey, could you get more vocals in the mains?" Sound guy: "Fuck off, I'm doing my job, don't try to do mine for me." Jon: "Dude, I was just saying-" Sound guy: "Dude, just 'cause you're ears are now accustomed to large halls doesn't mean you hear better than I do. I'm the sound guy, you newly- famous, overly- confident prick. Fuck off." Then Jon snaps. Too little sleep, too much to drink, maybe some blow, and a different city every night for almost a year. What city am I in? When does this ride end? Hotel, show, sleep? Bus, plane hotel, show, drinks, hotel, sleep? Bus, show.....
There are few of us out there like Jon who are sensitive and wear their hearts on their sleeves the way he does. It sounds like a case of jaded sound guy being a dick vs. overly-sensitive, sleep deprived, possibly strung out artist who is in a different city every single night, finally hitting his breaking point. Does this really sound like a new story? Mingus chopped a piano to bits with a hatchet ON STAGE for god's sake.
I'm not saying give the guy sympathy. But the guy started a fucking movement whether you like it or not. The mantle was placed on him, so to speak. There's a lot of pressure on the guy. And unless you were there to witness the event, don't be so quick to judge.
I have played the Tractor and the sound was great. The sound guy was nice enough, but I can envision the scene unfolding. Jon mentions something like, "Hey, could you get more vocals in the mains?" Sound guy: "Fuck off, I'm doing my job, don't try to do mine for me." Jon: "Dude, I was just saying-" Sound guy: "Dude, just 'cause you're ears are now accustomed to large halls doesn't mean you hear better than I do. I'm the sound guy, you newly- famous, overly- confident prick. Fuck off." Then Jon snaps. Too little sleep, too much to drink, maybe some blow, and a different city every night for almost a year. What city am I in? When does this ride end? Hotel, show, sleep? Bus, plane hotel, show, drinks, hotel, sleep? Bus, show.....
There are few of us out there like Jon who are sensitive and wear their hearts on their sleeves the way he does. It sounds like a case of jaded sound guy being a dick vs. overly-sensitive, sleep deprived, possibly strung out artist who is in a different city every single night, finally hitting his breaking point. Does this really sound like a new story? Mingus chopped a piano to bits with a hatchet ON STAGE for god's sake.
I'm not saying give the guy sympathy. But the guy started a fucking movement whether you like it or not. The mantle was placed on him, so to speak. There's a lot of pressure on the guy. And unless you were there to witness the event, don't be so quick to judge.
103
@102 fuck off and stop making excuses, a movement? Get the fuck out of here. The only redeeming thing about thehath is the slutty blonde who always looks like she's hurtin for a squirtin. From what i hear, hers is an open leg policy. Fuck this pansy and his two chord bullshit.
104
@102 Wow. By far the dumbest fucking thing said on this post yet. Started a movement? What the fuck are you talking about? Also, dude is not Mingus (do I really need to say that?) and chopping up a piano is not the same as CHOKING SOMEONE WHILE THEY'RE AT FUCKING WORK.
By far the most embarrassing band to come out of Seattle. No wonder no place else takes us seriously.
By far the most embarrassing band to come out of Seattle. No wonder no place else takes us seriously.
105
#102: You are a fucking tool. A MOVEMENT? WHAT MOVEMENT? I can't even address all the other totally fucked up things you said in your post because I am stuck on this word.
107
it doesn't matter whether or not one likes THATH or thinks they are singlehandedly destroying everything anyone has ever loved about seattle and it's music (and if that's all it takes. . .)
what matters is the safety of people who work in the music industry. i don't like THATH, but i do hope jon's friends get him some help.
what matters is the safety of people who work in the music industry. i don't like THATH, but i do hope jon's friends get him some help.
109
I think that 102 might be on to something re: there being two sides to this story... regardless of how utterly unacceptable this Jon guy's behaviour was. I don't agree with 102 re: "Head & The Neck" starting some sort of movement (more like wrapping one up, if the lord has any mercy on our bearded-acoustic-banjo-sodden ears) or that being a tired, drunk and/or strung out touring musician is an excuse for physically attacking another person.
However- I've dealt with more than my share of difficult house sound humans over the years... and they can be just as tired, cranky and downright bizarre as the musicians they work with, if not more so. In fact, after 25 years of playing, booking and producing shows, I've observed that that particular job description seems to attract a greater percentage of solitary/quirky/non-people person people to it than any other in the industry. Kinda makes sense though- house sound techs have to work 5-6 nights a week with 2-4 bands per night of varying degrees of talent, experience and attitude. I love music- but that would suck!
I think the lesson here is two fold: if you're a musician, mind your p's and q's around ALL the support staff in any venue. Be nice, have fun & thank 'em for a job well done... and don't get so wasted that you lose control unless you can afford a limo home, a bodyguard or two and a team of defense attorneys. If you're a sound tech... do the same.
However- I've dealt with more than my share of difficult house sound humans over the years... and they can be just as tired, cranky and downright bizarre as the musicians they work with, if not more so. In fact, after 25 years of playing, booking and producing shows, I've observed that that particular job description seems to attract a greater percentage of solitary/quirky/non-people person people to it than any other in the industry. Kinda makes sense though- house sound techs have to work 5-6 nights a week with 2-4 bands per night of varying degrees of talent, experience and attitude. I love music- but that would suck!
I think the lesson here is two fold: if you're a musician, mind your p's and q's around ALL the support staff in any venue. Be nice, have fun & thank 'em for a job well done... and don't get so wasted that you lose control unless you can afford a limo home, a bodyguard or two and a team of defense attorneys. If you're a sound tech... do the same.
110
@102 and @109
This incident took place after a concert in which Jon was in attendance and not performing.
Anyone that has met or worked with Doug knows that there isn't a second side to the story. Doug avoids drama and conflict like the plague because it isn't productive -- he simply wouldn't have mentioned this conflict unless he felt it was the right thing to do.
This incident took place after a concert in which Jon was in attendance and not performing.
Anyone that has met or worked with Doug knows that there isn't a second side to the story. Doug avoids drama and conflict like the plague because it isn't productive -- he simply wouldn't have mentioned this conflict unless he felt it was the right thing to do.
111
having worked with mr. Krebs as soundguy on MANY occasions, i can assure you there was no back talk, much less swearing on his behalf. the dude is a PRO, that means he makes the musicians think that they actually know what they are talking about, which in 95% of all cases... they have NO CLUE.
the bottom line is this little worm needs to find another line of work. if you cant handle the road (muchless even watching another band's show) without assaulting people, GET THE F OUT OF THE KITCHEN!!! pathetic!
the ASSHOLE MOVEMENT has been going on since the beginning of BULLSHIT. get a clue, idiot.
the bottom line is this little worm needs to find another line of work. if you cant handle the road (muchless even watching another band's show) without assaulting people, GET THE F OUT OF THE KITCHEN!!! pathetic!
the ASSHOLE MOVEMENT has been going on since the beginning of BULLSHIT. get a clue, idiot.
113
This band never should have been playing at The Croc to begin with, they are highly overrated. Watched Carson Henley and Tess Henley at the same venue about a month ago...now THAT, is real music and entertainment.
114
This guy got kicked out of Quinn's performance space on Capitol Hill after their second show (a benefit show, mind you) for threatening to fight another band they had earlier praised (my band). This guy is a loose cannon and should be stopped from playing in Seattle. Not the first time this has happened, folks.
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