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Monday, December 5, 2011
Life / Video / #1 Fan Good Morning from Spinderella
Posted by Anna Minard on Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 10:27 AM
I was pointed in the direction of this video today after commenting that Salt-N-Pepa's Very Necessary was my Monday morning walk to work music. And what great Monday morning music it makes. Here's Spinderella's edition of "What's in My Bag?" from Amoeba Records. (Tiny spoilers: (1) The first one is "My Sharona"; (2) she does have some S&P records in there; (3) doesn't she look abso-fucking-lutely amazing??!)
Thanks, Hot Tipper Brian!
1
Something about the tone in her voice and the look on her face when she says "I've been collecting 45s again" suggests to me that this has been a problem for her in the past, and she has just relapsed. Stay strong, Spinderella. You'll make it through this.
2
Dear Grant: Can you stop calling grown women "girls" (referring to your Slog cross post)? You did that twice already today and have done many times in the past. Or at least contain the casual misogyny on Line Out so everyone but your douchebro base can get their news from Slog and music news from the Seattle Weekly and other blogs.
4
I'd like to coin the term "casual offense-ism" for the people who throw out cries of "that's racist" or "that's sexist" or "Dan Savage is a transphobe" at the little things.
Oh, hey, anyone ever notice that grown men are frequently called "boys"? Or is is only offensive and diminutive when it's done to women? Or is it "ladies"? I keep forgetting.
Oh, hey, anyone ever notice that grown men are frequently called "boys"? Or is is only offensive and diminutive when it's done to women? Or is it "ladies"? I keep forgetting.
5
Oh, shit. Sorry guys, typo @4. "Ladies" should have been spelled "strong, beautiful, self-sufficient wymyn."
7
I'll bite. @4, -isms and oppression require prejudice (racial, sexual, regarding sexual orientation, etc...) PLUS power. That's why it's racism when people of color are subordinated by whites and merely racial prejudice when people of color harbor racialized feelings about other people of color or against white people. People of color (as a group) do not get to define reality for white people (as a group).
It's the same thing regarding misogyny and disparagement and violence against women. Men (as a group) get to define the rules and reality for women (as a group) so that even "small" acts of casual misogyny are worth calling out.
I'm absolutely willing to assume that there are no conscious feelings of ill-intent on Grant's part. It is however, completely inappropriate for him to be referring to a grown woman as a girl, especially in this (public) context and especially because he does not actually know this woman.
It's the same thing regarding misogyny and disparagement and violence against women. Men (as a group) get to define the rules and reality for women (as a group) so that even "small" acts of casual misogyny are worth calling out.
I'm absolutely willing to assume that there are no conscious feelings of ill-intent on Grant's part. It is however, completely inappropriate for him to be referring to a grown woman as a girl, especially in this (public) context and especially because he does not actually know this woman.
8
@2 it's hard to pick up the subtle use of "girl" in the context, but he did not say "that girl" or "this girl." Rather, he's co-opting language that would usually be used between two women.
Calm down, everyone.
Calm down, everyone.
9
I believe Grant is purposely awkwardly employing drag slang for comic effect and is therefore unimpeachable (yet peachy).
10
It doesn't help when you're a 30-or-whatever year old white guy calling a 40 year old black woman a "girl", in a way you'd describe a block of cheese ("cheese be aging well").
It doesn't help when you're a music editor who replaced another music editor who received constant complaints of misogyny - so much so, that a member of Tacocat published a scathing article about his misogyny in your own newspaper.
Just ask yourself, are you respecting this person as a human being? Anna did, Grant did not.
It doesn't help when you're a music editor who replaced another music editor who received constant complaints of misogyny - so much so, that a member of Tacocat published a scathing article about his misogyny in your own newspaper.
Just ask yourself, are you respecting this person as a human being? Anna did, Grant did not.
12
the "girl" thing always catches me. i don't call men "men." i call them boys, and i call girls girls. women seems, old. men seems, old. like my parents. actually, i probably use girls and guys. but gal seems old, too. and when i say old, i don't mean aged. i mean anachronistic.
of course, i've had to watch out on using the word girl, because some people do find offense in its usage. which really catches me off-guard and surprises me. i mean, if it was using in a deragotory context or tone, sure, i'd get it. same for boy.
but my email address has the word "boy" in it. sure, i'm a guy, and not part of the marginalized group. i get that. and will probably stop using the word if it really is a problem. i can understand that. but in my life, and in the contexts i've seen and heard it used, i really haven't seen the negative side of its usage. and i don't think grant is using it to be funny, as per @3 above. i think it's just an effectionate term. girlfriend. boyfriend.
oh, and i'm not a douchebro or bro type at all. if that's worth anything. and not trying to be antagonistic. eh, i guess i kind of get it, because you wouldn't call clinton a girl. but it seems seems nice to me, not pejorative. there are times i'd like to be called a man, and times i'd like to be called a boy. as long as the intent is good, it's good to me. and his intent seemed good and not belittling. (unless, of course, the argument is that she should be judged by her musical taste in this instance, not appearance, but i still think people would say "boy" for a man collecting records... i don't know...)
of course, i've had to watch out on using the word girl, because some people do find offense in its usage. which really catches me off-guard and surprises me. i mean, if it was using in a deragotory context or tone, sure, i'd get it. same for boy.
but my email address has the word "boy" in it. sure, i'm a guy, and not part of the marginalized group. i get that. and will probably stop using the word if it really is a problem. i can understand that. but in my life, and in the contexts i've seen and heard it used, i really haven't seen the negative side of its usage. and i don't think grant is using it to be funny, as per @3 above. i think it's just an effectionate term. girlfriend. boyfriend.
oh, and i'm not a douchebro or bro type at all. if that's worth anything. and not trying to be antagonistic. eh, i guess i kind of get it, because you wouldn't call clinton a girl. but it seems seems nice to me, not pejorative. there are times i'd like to be called a man, and times i'd like to be called a boy. as long as the intent is good, it's good to me. and his intent seemed good and not belittling. (unless, of course, the argument is that she should be judged by her musical taste in this instance, not appearance, but i still think people would say "boy" for a man collecting records... i don't know...)
13
Okay, what if he said "Girlfriend is aging gracefully?" Would that elicit the same response of ism-ness?
17
that wasn't me hitting "post" twice, that was me being kicked out and replaced by someone with the same name.
18
oh, one more thought -- as it seems i'm embarassing myself with typing before thinking today. i guess it's this, the term seems effectionate to me. and i have a hard time see someone using the term n*gger or negro in such a way (though i'm sure for some it is appropriate and done so). but g*rl, on the other hand, seems like it could be used casually with absolutely no harm intended. no so with those other words. is there a history of the word girl being used a put-down so much so that it shouldn't be used any longer in this context? if so -- and if women really do feel that is it not a positive term -- then i see the point. but it also strikes me as odd as i would never mean it that way. i understand the larger cultural context, though.
19
These arguments always remind me of a bit near the conclusion of The Restaurant At The End of The Universe. Prehistoric earthlings are finally getting around to inventing the wheel:
'And the wheel,' said the Captain, 'what about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project.'
'Ah,' said the marketing girl, 'well, we're having a little difficulty there.'
'Difficulty?' exclaimed Ford. 'Difficulty? What do you mean difficulty? It's the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!'
The marketing girl soured him with a look.
'All right, Mr Wiseguy,' she said, 'you're so clever, you tell us what colour it should be.'
'And the wheel,' said the Captain, 'what about this wheel thingy? It sounds a terribly interesting project.'
'Ah,' said the marketing girl, 'well, we're having a little difficulty there.'
'Difficulty?' exclaimed Ford. 'Difficulty? What do you mean difficulty? It's the single simplest machine in the entire Universe!'
The marketing girl soured him with a look.
'All right, Mr Wiseguy,' she said, 'you're so clever, you tell us what colour it should be.'
20
Can someone please write to Cyndi Lauper and tell her to stop singing about girls, please? It's "Women Just Want To Have Fun". I just heard it on the radio today, and oooh, it made me sooo mad!!!
22
@6 - You're sweet, but I couldn't possibly take credit for the derailing of this thread, not when 2 and 3 beat me to it. I like your contribution to getting us back on track, though.
23
@in-frequent: Thanks for being open to changing your language, that's much appreciated (and more than usually expected on Slog/ online "discussions.")
There's an element of "in-group/out-group" going on here where Grant uses a term that can be entirely appropriate when used in-group, respectfully and with permission. At least two of those things aren't true with Grant's use of the word "girl." This isn't a word that men should try to use for "comic effect" as suggested above. Just don't do it. It's not funny.
As to your thoughts on racialized language, one problem is that casual misogyny is so prevalant that it's rendered practically invisible. We're often a little more cognisant about racialized language, usually, so people often speak in code (or just more privately) with some casual racism (though plenty still fills our language).
Thanks again for the willingness to reconsider. :)
There's an element of "in-group/out-group" going on here where Grant uses a term that can be entirely appropriate when used in-group, respectfully and with permission. At least two of those things aren't true with Grant's use of the word "girl." This isn't a word that men should try to use for "comic effect" as suggested above. Just don't do it. It's not funny.
As to your thoughts on racialized language, one problem is that casual misogyny is so prevalant that it's rendered practically invisible. We're often a little more cognisant about racialized language, usually, so people often speak in code (or just more privately) with some casual racism (though plenty still fills our language).
Thanks again for the willingness to reconsider. :)
24
As a woman whose age is in Spinderella's neighborhood, I do not object to being called "Girl" in this context (or one similar). Now, if that word was being used expressly to denigrate my person, that would be offensive. In this case, it denotes appreciation and who doesn't like to be appreciated?
27
As much as I love when people have serious conversations about sexism, the fact that only a couple of the comments on this are actually about Spin herself makes me sad. Subvert the patriarchy: Have a serious conversation about how fucking amazing Salt-N-Pepa are!
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