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Thursday, January 26, 2012
Gossip Chuck Klosterman Pisses Off tUnE-yArDs Fans
Posted by Bree McKenna on Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 9:17 AM
Chuck Klosterman's writing and indie-bro ways have always been on the edge of completely irritating, no matter who he is talking about, but his response to tUnE-yArDs being voted #1 on the Pazz and Jop Poll was especially annoying. "The Pitfalls of Indie Fame," is meant to reflect how people's relationship with a hyped musician will change over the years, but whole thing reads like a satire of a old and out-of-touch dude trying to discredit something he doesn't understand, lazily implying that Merril Garbus will likely end up as another Indie Flavor of the Month. He admits that he's "not really in a position to argue for (or against) the merits of tUnE-yArDs,” but still manages to throw in a few shitty examples of his limited understanding:
"tUnE-yArDs is essentially one person, a somewhat androgynous American woman named Merrill Garbus. This is her second album. I get the sense that asexuality is part of her hippie aesthetic, because I just looked at the tUnE-yArDs Wikipedia page and noticed that the wiki writer put a lot of effort into never using gender-specific pronouns."
He got quite a few angry responses about it; Maura Johnston at the Village Voice labeled his attitude "Old Man Yells At Cloud That He Seems To Find Gender-Ambiguous," L Magazine called for the end of male-dominated "High Fidelity" rock criticism and this blog parody of the article is just pretty funny.
1
I don't think that you even need to be a tUnE-yArDs fan to have found his response irritating is all I'm saying.
2
It's a smarmy, annoying, condescending piece; don't get me wrong. But he's not really talking about Tune-Yards. He's talking about the perils of this kind of critical acclaim. (I think?) He could write the same piece about whoever had won the Pazz & Jop Poll - as long as it was someone who had been relatively unknown before then. But yeah, dude comes off as a clueless jackass, no doubt.
3
Yeah a more honest headline would be "Chuck Klosterman Pisses Off People Who Are Tired Of His Schtick". For the last time, fuck beard scratchers and the square culture that they represent.
6
"Yeah a more honest headline would be "Chuck Klosterman Pisses Off People Who Are Tired Of His Schtick". For the last time, fuck beard scratchers and the square culture that they represent. "
In other words, fuck people who are actually interesting thinkers, as I'd rather just fit comfortably into my subculture and never have anyone cause me to see things from a different perspective.
In other words, fuck people who are actually interesting thinkers, as I'd rather just fit comfortably into my subculture and never have anyone cause me to see things from a different perspective.
7
Oh yeah, and I really like tUnE-yArDs. (Although I really fucking hate the capitalization scheme going on there.)
8
@6
If that's what you took away from what I said than I can't really help you. This guy made a career out of writing like he truly understood the entire hipster zeitgeist, so I can't see how coming down against him shows that I am firmly rooted in subculture with my fingers in my ears. My problem is that so many people buy that about him when really all he's became is what so many others have tried their hands at and failed; putting a Ginger-haired, bespectacled face to the 21st century's total lack of self-awareness.
If that's what you took away from what I said than I can't really help you. This guy made a career out of writing like he truly understood the entire hipster zeitgeist, so I can't see how coming down against him shows that I am firmly rooted in subculture with my fingers in my ears. My problem is that so many people buy that about him when really all he's became is what so many others have tried their hands at and failed; putting a Ginger-haired, bespectacled face to the 21st century's total lack of self-awareness.
9
I wrote this elsewhere, but it's worth quoting myself: warpaint and feathers is the 21st century equivalent of blackface.
Also, Klosterman is annoying, perhaps has always been annoying. With regards to this article, I think it's safe to say that both Klosterman and Tune-Yards could be the villain - no one has to be right, everyone can be wrong.
Also, Klosterman is annoying, perhaps has always been annoying. With regards to this article, I think it's safe to say that both Klosterman and Tune-Yards could be the villain - no one has to be right, everyone can be wrong.
10
Klosterman is kind of -- pretty much -- a retard a lot of the time, but if you found this article of his to be really annoying you're probably really annoying yourself. It's just a harmless musing about the potential future of Tune-Yards*, nothing more. No reason to get bent out of shape unless you've got a pineapple up your ass all the time.
* - I typed LiKe tHiS when I was 12. I grew out of it and won't do it again just because somebody else hasn't.
* - I typed LiKe tHiS when I was 12. I grew out of it and won't do it again just because somebody else hasn't.
11
Wow. Who knew there were still people out there, music fans even, who weren't aware of how Chuck Klosterman rolls.
Now seems like a good time to mention that this was written almost 10 years ago:
http://www.nypress.com/article-8054-the-…
Now seems like a good time to mention that this was written almost 10 years ago:
http://www.nypress.com/article-8054-the-…
15
I HAVEN'T READ THIS ARTICLE AND I'VE NEVER LISTENED TO TUNEYARDS; BUT I KNOW FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT KLOSTERMAN IS AN ANNOYING ASS.
16
@11: I dunno if it was his goal but the author of that article succeeded in being even more obnoxious and awful to read than Klosterman.
19
Chuck is a good guy. His opinions are no more exaggerated or out of sync than anyone who writes for The Stranger. He also has a knack for expressing himself honestly, even if the opinion is unpopular. Lets not forget what kind of Rock-crit suicide it was to admit you adored 80's metal at the time Fargo Rock City came out.
Lets face it. No one who writes for The Stranger has ever taken a critical risk. Tuneyards is as generic as any number of other bands that have been foisted upon the late 20's, 'I'm still in on youth culture, right?' crowd. It is safe. It is easy.
Show me something awesome. Lavish praise on some amazing band no one has ever heard of that is touring through on a tuesday night at The Funhouse-rather than failing to even mention it in the music calendar.
Lets face it. No one who writes for The Stranger has ever taken a critical risk. Tuneyards is as generic as any number of other bands that have been foisted upon the late 20's, 'I'm still in on youth culture, right?' crowd. It is safe. It is easy.
Show me something awesome. Lavish praise on some amazing band no one has ever heard of that is touring through on a tuesday night at The Funhouse-rather than failing to even mention it in the music calendar.
20
As an old guy, I'd rather see the Chuckster attacked for what he wrote than for being an old guy per se.
22
Tuneyards is this year's Vampire Weekend. Maybe they will reschedule a show because the poor singer has a scratchy throat? Maybe they could use a photo on the cover of their next album w/o permission?
23
@19 well stated, at least in your first paragraph.
i'm a little surprised to see so much Klosterman hatred. granted, i don't agree much with his taste in music, but i think his general on-going premise--that the big cultural rain-makers aren't always the hip critical darlings--serves as a good reminder to anyone touting, say, tUnE-yArDs, or Shabazz Palaces, or Wolves In The Throne Room, or Amon Tobin, or any other "edgey" leader of any given musical subset, that obscurity and/or contrarianism doesn't inherently make something more artistically valid or effective. and he does it in a way that isn't half as condescending as the writings of his detractors.
this is a guy that basically wrote a whole book triumphing hair metal over Black Flag, which should put him on my shitlist. but i think he does an excellent job speaking for the broader music community, particularly the demographic that doesn't spend time defending or belittling tUnE-yArDs in the comments section of an alt-weekly's music blog.
as for your comments in the second and third paragraphs, c'mon...
i'm a little surprised to see so much Klosterman hatred. granted, i don't agree much with his taste in music, but i think his general on-going premise--that the big cultural rain-makers aren't always the hip critical darlings--serves as a good reminder to anyone touting, say, tUnE-yArDs, or Shabazz Palaces, or Wolves In The Throne Room, or Amon Tobin, or any other "edgey" leader of any given musical subset, that obscurity and/or contrarianism doesn't inherently make something more artistically valid or effective. and he does it in a way that isn't half as condescending as the writings of his detractors.
this is a guy that basically wrote a whole book triumphing hair metal over Black Flag, which should put him on my shitlist. but i think he does an excellent job speaking for the broader music community, particularly the demographic that doesn't spend time defending or belittling tUnE-yArDs in the comments section of an alt-weekly's music blog.
as for your comments in the second and third paragraphs, c'mon...
25
To invoke a Line Out meme: In 20 years, people will look back on this Tune Yards album the same way we all look back at Freaky Styley or the Uplift Mofo Party Plan. "They used to be so edgy and cool, but look at them now".
26
I'm pretty sure that Klosterman is more or less a lucky schmuck whose made his living writing about cereal and metal*, so I was prepared to be a lot more annoyed at Chuck's article than I was. I'm so/so on TuNeYaRdS (<--- look! at least it's attractively symmetrical), some tracks I thought worked, others I didn't enjoy. Still, I was prepared to find myself irritated or simply rolling my eyes (like I did at his inane musings on Guns and Roses a while back) the whole article, and there were only a couple moments of that.
*nothing wrong with that, just not an indicator of talent either way.
Maybe he shouldn't have framed it as an article "about tune-YARDS!!!" but the basic point that the indie/critical world has it's one-hit wonders as well, that's fair and seems to be forgotten often.
and for the record, being a music reviewer for an Alt-Weekly is pretty thankless. You're either accused of catering to a half-imaginary "hipster" (?) fanbase (see Eric Grandy) being "old and out of touch" (see Grant Brissey) or pandering to yuppies (the Seattle Weekly, but that's fair. . .)
*nothing wrong with that, just not an indicator of talent either way.
Maybe he shouldn't have framed it as an article "about tune-YARDS!!!" but the basic point that the indie/critical world has it's one-hit wonders as well, that's fair and seems to be forgotten often.
and for the record, being a music reviewer for an Alt-Weekly is pretty thankless. You're either accused of catering to a half-imaginary "hipster" (?) fanbase (see Eric Grandy) being "old and out of touch" (see Grant Brissey) or pandering to yuppies (the Seattle Weekly, but that's fair. . .)
27
"She will probably just make a bunch more albums of varying quality, none of which will get the collective adoration of w h o k i l l. And then Garbus will end up with this bizarre 40-year-old life, where her singular claim to fame will be future people saying things like, "Hey, remember that one winter when we all thought tUnE-yArDs was supposed to be brilliant?"
Chuck knows that career arc all too well.
Chuck knows that career arc all too well.
28
No doubt Klosterman was an ass here, but (a) I really dig a lot of his writing that is not this and (b) it's probably not a good idea to combat any out-of-touch indie-bro tendencies he harbors with ageism and (as with the article @11 posted) physical jabs.
29
People are trying too hard to dissect his article and his writing style. It can be summed up with the following: Klosterman is notorious for writing things just for effect. He's also notorious for occasional lazy reporting/research, and half-baked theories on pop culture. He's still fun to read. Done, and done.
30
@Brian- what do you mean C'mon? Seriously.
Name me the last band that got a review or any press that came out of the blue. Name me the last time you read something not carrying the safe-rock, death cab for vampire wolf party line?
Name me the last band that got a review or any press that came out of the blue. Name me the last time you read something not carrying the safe-rock, death cab for vampire wolf party line?
31
Great Line Out post. I don't care about Klosterman or what he thinks about tune yards, but his very thinly veiled misogyny ("I barely listened to her, she's not even hot, so she's a joke") is a problem.
Here's a good article with a longer critique.
http://www.collapseboard.com/blogs/scott…
Here's a good article with a longer critique.
http://www.collapseboard.com/blogs/scott…
32
@30 yeah, seriously. where is the "safe rock death cab for vampire wolf party line" here?
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Autho…
or let's simplify it. where's your sweeping generalization in this week's issue? Pollens, Erin Jorgensen, Black Breath, Wu Tang?
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Autho…
or let's simplify it. where's your sweeping generalization in this week's issue? Pollens, Erin Jorgensen, Black Breath, Wu Tang?
33
Let me turn the question around-
In the 4 years that they played nearly 200 local shows and put out 3 albums, where was the coverage of The Histrionics? 3 high school girls making pretty fearsome, jagged post punk in a way that was completely unique, at least in the region.
I like Black Breath, but they can't take a shit w/o it being mentioned in Line Out. Wu-Tang? really? My wife had a Wu Tang CD when she was in High School, and she isn't too many years from her 20th reunion.
In the 4 years that they played nearly 200 local shows and put out 3 albums, where was the coverage of The Histrionics? 3 high school girls making pretty fearsome, jagged post punk in a way that was completely unique, at least in the region.
I like Black Breath, but they can't take a shit w/o it being mentioned in Line Out. Wu-Tang? really? My wife had a Wu Tang CD when she was in High School, and she isn't too many years from her 20th reunion.
34
Here, Brian, let me save you some time. Everything covered in the Stranger toes the safe rock vampire wolf party line. You are posting links of things covered in the Stranger, ergo those things toe the safe rock vampire wolf party line. QED!
35
@33 but now we're not dealing with your initial accusation, which was that The Stranger's music coverage was limited to toeing the line on nationally popular twee indie rock.
Chris, i usually see eye-to-eye with you, but you're original argument is baseless. half the time i don't have half a clue about the stuff Dave Segal is talking about. i doubt Larry Mizell Jr. has the slightest interest in Pitchfork hype rock bands. and do you honestly think Trent Moorman is toeing the line on anything?
Chris, i usually see eye-to-eye with you, but you're original argument is baseless. half the time i don't have half a clue about the stuff Dave Segal is talking about. i doubt Larry Mizell Jr. has the slightest interest in Pitchfork hype rock bands. and do you honestly think Trent Moorman is toeing the line on anything?
36
I don't think any one person is failing in their efforts to cover new and exciting music. What I would suggest is that there is apparently plenty of space to select bands, local and national, and cover what they do ad. nauseum, but not spend the time or space on lots of exciting and interesting stuff that is less well known. By that very act, music press (not just the stranger) creates a culture of 'in, acceptable, approved' music, and conversely those that will receive minimal attention. In a town the size of Seattle, with no qualitative difference in musical output, that is the difference between 20 people at your show-and a booker who will not be working with you again, and 50 people, a successful show, and a happy booker.
And after the 20th mention of a band, an interview, a run-down on their marijuana habits, and some dazzling color pictures the day of their show, it is pretty safe to assume they are an accepted and acceptable part of the editorial direction of a paper. They are safe for a booker, they may be safe for a label.
And after the 20th mention of a band, an interview, a run-down on their marijuana habits, and some dazzling color pictures the day of their show, it is pretty safe to assume they are an accepted and acceptable part of the editorial direction of a paper. They are safe for a booker, they may be safe for a label.
37
@36 i think that is a much fairer criticism.
but what if, for example, the paper DIDN'T mention Black Breath more than once or twice? people would be, like, "why aren't you covering Black Breath? they're recording a new album. that's a big deal, and they're a internationally-touring band. why are you writing about stuff no one cares about instead?" it's like when the last Fleet Foxes album came out and the paper did the zoo piece on them and everyone got upset because they felt the band deserved more thorough coverage from their local paper.
believe me, i'd much rather write about stuff like this:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/break…
...than stuff like this:
http://lineout.thestranger.com/lineout/a…
and yes, i agree; it would be great to be able to have every local band get their 125 words in the paper. but would that help bands? would people still read the music section if we ONLY talked about bands like The Histrionics? i feel like i'm stating the obvious here, but there has to be a balance between covering bands that people are familiar with and the bands no one's heard of yet. could that balance be better? depends on your perspective. i'm sure all the struggling musicians wish there was more exposure for small local bands. but sadly, i'm sure the broader readership is more interested in Death Cab For Cutie than these bands:
http://lineout.thestranger.com/lineout/a…
More...
but what if, for example, the paper DIDN'T mention Black Breath more than once or twice? people would be, like, "why aren't you covering Black Breath? they're recording a new album. that's a big deal, and they're a internationally-touring band. why are you writing about stuff no one cares about instead?" it's like when the last Fleet Foxes album came out and the paper did the zoo piece on them and everyone got upset because they felt the band deserved more thorough coverage from their local paper.
believe me, i'd much rather write about stuff like this:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/break…
...than stuff like this:
http://lineout.thestranger.com/lineout/a…
and yes, i agree; it would be great to be able to have every local band get their 125 words in the paper. but would that help bands? would people still read the music section if we ONLY talked about bands like The Histrionics? i feel like i'm stating the obvious here, but there has to be a balance between covering bands that people are familiar with and the bands no one's heard of yet. could that balance be better? depends on your perspective. i'm sure all the struggling musicians wish there was more exposure for small local bands. but sadly, i'm sure the broader readership is more interested in Death Cab For Cutie than these bands:
http://lineout.thestranger.com/lineout/a…
38
What #31 said. Bit surprised Bree didn't mention this in his original article.
http://www.collapseboard.com/blogs/scott…
http://www.collapseboard.com/blogs/scott…
40
It seems like people are spending far more hours bitching about Chuck's phoned-in essay than the ten minutes he spent writing it. Why does this one article anger you so much? I felt sort of neutral about his opinion, and I would have forgotten about it immediately if it weren't for the reactions to it, which are are leagues more irritating. I doubt even Klosterman thought he was penning anything mind-blowing. I'm actually inclined to take the responders less seriously because of their over-sensitivity. If I thought the guy was so wrong, or comically out of touch, I would have just tossed the piece aside with a chortle and moved on. By reacting so violently you are lending it more importance. Just get over it. If you like the album, you like the album. He can't take that away from you.
41
Name me the last band that got a review or any press that came out of the blue. Name me the last time you read something not carrying the safe-rock, death cab for vampire wolf party line?
Every godforsaken week I am not carrying that party line. But don't let me get in the way of your blinkered, sweeping generalization.
Every godforsaken week I am not carrying that party line. But don't let me get in the way of your blinkered, sweeping generalization.
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