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Friday, April 27, 2012
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz What Would Your Favorite Musician Have to Do For You to Never Listen to Their Music Again?
Posted by Megan Seling on Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 9:57 AM
Yesterday, Screeching Weasel's "First Day of Summer" came on my iTunes and I didn't stop it. Which is weird! Because it was the first time in over a year that I listened to the band, a band I had been listening to since I was 16-years-old.
I wouldn't say they're my favorite band of all time, though I do like them lot. But I was really disappointed last year when Ben Weasel, the singer, punched two women during Screeching Weasel's performance at SXSW. It was never a secret that Ben Weasel was kind of an asshole—he's built his career by being the bitter punk rock dude—but after last year's incident, I just didn't want to listen to his songs. At first I stopped listening on purpose, and then it came without any effort, really. There are plenty of other songs in the world to listen to, songs written by people who don't punch women in the face.
But yesterday I listened to the song and I enjoyed it. I guess my self-imposed quasi Screeching Weasel boycott is over. It's not like he killed someone, right?* No, I won't be going to any Screeching Weasel shows anymore (partly because I don't want to give Ben Weasel my money and partly because these days Screeching Weasel is just Weasel and whoever he can find to be his back-up band, especially since his bandmates ditched him after his violent outburst), but I'll still listen to the records I liked when I was a teenager.
I still listen to Michael Jackson despite the fact he was charged (though, acquitted) with child molestation. I listen to the Phil Spector Christmas album every December and he was found guilty of murder. Chris Brown still has fans and people still listen to the Sex Pistols.
But there's got to be a line, right? There's got to be something a beloved musician can do that will make even their biggest fan NEVER LISTEN TO THEM AGAIN. Or is there?
What would make you never listen to your favorite musician ever again? Anything? Nothing? Why?
*The lamest argument ever.
1
Interesting question. I think barring a personal attack of some kind - actually doing harm to one or one's family - there wouldn't be much that would stop most people from listening to a beloved musician. The music we've listened to and loved the most over our lives has a really strong hold and a particular resonance that is completely separate from what we might think of the artist as a person, and if we can tell ourselves that listening to the records we already own at home doesn't benefit the artist, but it can still bring us pleasure, then what's the harm? But yeah, if Ian MacKaye punched me or harrassed my wife or something then I'd probably get rid of my Fugazi records.
2
I tuned Prince out after his gay marriage comments a couple years ago. I still listen to him every now and then (just the stuff I grew up with though, haven't listened to his new material since the mid-90s) but it's just not the same. A huge part of his appeal for me was his gender-bending, sexually ambiguous weirdness and it's hard to square that with his current, jehova's witnessy weirdness. The god stuff was always a big element in his work but it has taken over in a way that makes me really uncomfortable.
3
Look for my compilation that will be coming out later this year, "Songs Written By People Who Don't Punch Women In the Face." It's gonna have A LOT of tracks.
4
It kinda bummed me out to find out that Falco from FOTL trolls message boards and PMs rants to people who might not like his latest jams.
5
@4 - he's always seemed like an unrepentant asshole, though. don't get me wrong, i love his music, but have you listened to that live disc of mcluskyism?
i think they should do a DIG! style documentary with FOTL.
i think they should do a DIG! style documentary with FOTL.
10
If I had to judge music by whether or not I like the people making it, I'd be able to like a lot less of it.
11
One of my favorite little two-person bands, Chicago Brother and Sister Blues Band, ended when the guitarist got drunk out of his mind, killed the singer with a hammer, wrapped her body up in a tarp, and dumped it in the San Francisco Bay. Their music's still good.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg…
12
Megan,
Clearly, one should separate the "art" from the artist. I don't think we'd have great art if we collectively refrained from appreciating art for art's sake. Still, I won't view the paintings of Hitler or read the poetry of Stalin. Their crimes are too great. Some "artists" don't merit attention to their "art". On the other hand, Wagner was a virulent anti-Semite but his music is extraordinary. Tough call.
Clearly, one should separate the "art" from the artist. I don't think we'd have great art if we collectively refrained from appreciating art for art's sake. Still, I won't view the paintings of Hitler or read the poetry of Stalin. Their crimes are too great. Some "artists" don't merit attention to their "art". On the other hand, Wagner was a virulent anti-Semite but his music is extraordinary. Tough call.
13
Gary Glitter has been pretty much wiped from history.
Micah P Hinson has made some right leaning comments which make me sad, but damn his voice is just so good.
Micah P Hinson has made some right leaning comments which make me sad, but damn his voice is just so good.
14
Sid Vicious didn't play on Never Mind The Bollocks. Sorry, just googled that statement and he played on Bodies but it was later overdubbed. So you can listen to most of The Sex Pistols' output without hearing a murderer playing bass badly on overrated songs.
16
I stopped listening a lot of bands I liked when they were vocal about supporting the transphobic "womyn born womyn only" policy at michigan womyns music festival. It wasn't so much their support of the space as the stupid things they said about transpeople that kinda did it for me.
17
The only musician I can think of that I enjoyed who I can no longer listen to due to something in their personal life is John Phillips. I know Miles Davis was, for a period, a pimp who beat women, but at least he never had an ongoing sexual relationship with his daughter.
22
@5) He seemed to come across as a "normal" asshole to me previously, no better or worse than a lot of people I consider good friends!
It more just bummed me out to discover he is so wrapped up in what people think of his music (specifically the EP that came out last year) that he'd take the time to read what some dude (actually a couple of people I know) would write, then write them angry retorts on why their wrong, etc.
It more just bummed me out to discover he is so wrapped up in what people think of his music (specifically the EP that came out last year) that he'd take the time to read what some dude (actually a couple of people I know) would write, then write them angry retorts on why their wrong, etc.
23
@13: Except they still play Rock And Roll Part 2 at sporting events. Some thanks to the Mighty Ducks movies for continuing that.
Most of my favorite bands are moderately well aligned with my own values, so it's unlikely that they would do anything I would turn them off for. Except maybe selling out or crossing the aisle. I stopped listening to Stuck Mojo after I heard the first 30 seconds of Rising, because they had clearly gone completely wingnut.
In a related category, Adam Baldwin is a racist homophobic triumphalist right wing dickhead, but I still enjoyed him in Firefly and Chuck... even though I now realize he was pretty much just playing himself both times. And ditto somewhat for David Lawrence XVII in Heroes.
Most of my favorite bands are moderately well aligned with my own values, so it's unlikely that they would do anything I would turn them off for. Except maybe selling out or crossing the aisle. I stopped listening to Stuck Mojo after I heard the first 30 seconds of Rising, because they had clearly gone completely wingnut.
In a related category, Adam Baldwin is a racist homophobic triumphalist right wing dickhead, but I still enjoyed him in Firefly and Chuck... even though I now realize he was pretty much just playing himself both times. And ditto somewhat for David Lawrence XVII in Heroes.
25
@7) This would require me getting rid of the first 5 or so ZZ Top records and the Alice Cooper Band records.
Occasionally, a Republican makes some good rock music.
Occasionally, a Republican makes some good rock music.
26
i dropped elvis costello after his 'ray charles was a blind nigger ' comment years ago. while bonnie bramlett slugging him made me feel a little better. and he's apologized for it many times since, i've been 'meh' about him for decades since.
27
Who was that band at the Triple Door a few years ago that berated an audience member for not standing up and then discovered he was in a wheelchair? That's the sort of thing where I'd quit the band.
28
Condemning another artist to death did it for me. Not that I listened to a lot of Cat Stevens before, but now when Yusuf Islam's "Peace Train" comes on the radio I get nauseous and change the station.
29
i never listen to "musicians" who do these things:
- go mainsteam (eg, on tv except maybe non-US or a jimmy fallon appearance)
- are liked by the wrong people (ppl in suburbs, sports fans, bro bloggers)
- pitchfork 9.0 or higher (bad taste)
- are unchill in any way (using the words "tranny" or "tight" for example)
- are not relevant for the past 3+ months
- go mainsteam (eg, on tv except maybe non-US or a jimmy fallon appearance)
- are liked by the wrong people (ppl in suburbs, sports fans, bro bloggers)
- pitchfork 9.0 or higher (bad taste)
- are unchill in any way (using the words "tranny" or "tight" for example)
- are not relevant for the past 3+ months
32
Write a violently antisemitic booklet blaming Jews for poisoning public taste in the arts. And/or producing a propaganda festival for the Nazi party. Short of that, not much.
33
I used to be a huge Posies fan. Thought they were the best Seattle band of the '90's (seriously!). Then Ken Stringfellow went & had an affair with my best friend's partner & I haven't been able to listen to them since.
True story.
True story.
34
Does it trouble anyone else when we classify violence? It's like, why does it have to be a woman that the knuckle head from Screaching Weasel has to hit before we'll not want to support him? I don't know, it seems weird.
It really bums me out when musicians go all right wing but if I really liked their music, REALLY liked their music, I'd probably still buy it. As it stands, I didn't really need a reason to never buy another Prince or Megadeth record but them being anti-gay or right wing nut jobs just cemented my decision.
It really bums me out when musicians go all right wing but if I really liked their music, REALLY liked their music, I'd probably still buy it. As it stands, I didn't really need a reason to never buy another Prince or Megadeth record but them being anti-gay or right wing nut jobs just cemented my decision.
36
I think we can all agree that "Catch Scratch Fever" is the most brilliant, original, and moving composition in the history of rock and roll.
But thanks to Nugent's politics, I now only listen to it 10 times a day.
But thanks to Nugent's politics, I now only listen to it 10 times a day.
37
Not a band per se, but I used to lovingly listen to John Richards every morning on KEXP as I readied myself for the day. Then he started talking poorly about his wife, bringing up his divorce on the radio, and exposing us listeners to personal information we neither wanted nor asked for. He used to praise her and his son. Regardless of how his personal life devolved, we didn't need it and it brought me down. I've stopped supporting his show because of it, though I still donate to the station.
38
If my fave musician converted to Mormonism, Scientology or Islam during his recording career I would not listen.
My fave musician threw a drink at a woman (record company marketing executive), insulted members of other bands co-appearing on shows, and drove his band members, colleagues and sound engineer to therapy, exhaustion or despair. He's been pretentious, nasty, sarcastic and condescending in brief pop show interviews that are lead-ins to lip-sync performances. I didn't know this until I owned most of the tracks he recorded. I won't toss his stuff out though: they're too beautiful.
And at least one Stranger music staff writer thinks he's a genius, so I know I'm not alone.
My fave musician threw a drink at a woman (record company marketing executive), insulted members of other bands co-appearing on shows, and drove his band members, colleagues and sound engineer to therapy, exhaustion or despair. He's been pretentious, nasty, sarcastic and condescending in brief pop show interviews that are lead-ins to lip-sync performances. I didn't know this until I owned most of the tracks he recorded. I won't toss his stuff out though: they're too beautiful.
And at least one Stranger music staff writer thinks he's a genius, so I know I'm not alone.
39
If you look hard enough you can find something bad about most artists, (save Stevie Wonder.) You have to make a choice to love the art or love the artist. Love the actions of love the person. I've had to grapple with this a lot, as MJ is my all time fav. For him, I contextualize. His bringing up, his abuse, his meteoric rise, his addiction to drugs. The latter being important in terms of maliciously boning kids. If you've ever had a steady script habit, you'll know that the last thing you want to do is bone anything. I see him being wildly inappropriate with kids, I don't see him as a rapist. At any rate, his art is how I connected with him. That trumps actions.
I also watch Roman Polanski movies. Enjoy Sean Connery. Listen to Wu-Tang. Appreciate Van Gogh. Also, I still love my own grandparents and they did some fucked up shit to people I actually know. They asked for forgiveness and they have mine. Artists are human beings, fallible, fallible, fallible. I thank God that the artists who have made bad choices and reveled their gross imperfections decided to still enrich the world with their talents.
I also watch Roman Polanski movies. Enjoy Sean Connery. Listen to Wu-Tang. Appreciate Van Gogh. Also, I still love my own grandparents and they did some fucked up shit to people I actually know. They asked for forgiveness and they have mine. Artists are human beings, fallible, fallible, fallible. I thank God that the artists who have made bad choices and reveled their gross imperfections decided to still enrich the world with their talents.
40
Cruelty to an animal. Dog fights in particular really anger me. But causing pain would piss me off enough.
41
At first I thought that politics was the biggest deal breaker for me, but then I realized that the wingers just haven't made as good of music as some of the other scum bags. Ike Turner, Michael Jackson... just SO much better than John Popper and Ted Nugent.
42
I definitely won't put money in the pocket of an artist that's done something I find offensive and the ease of buying used CDs makes it so you don't have to.
In the late nineties I was volunteering at an alternative health project for people with HIV and AIDS when PETA, along with special guest Chrissie Hynde, held a press conference to say that they felt it would be better to never find a cure for AIDS than to have a single lab rat die in the pursuit.
In the late nineties I was volunteering at an alternative health project for people with HIV and AIDS when PETA, along with special guest Chrissie Hynde, held a press conference to say that they felt it would be better to never find a cure for AIDS than to have a single lab rat die in the pursuit.
44
I don't listen to John Richards that much any more because I can put a mix of the highest rated guitar music on Pitchfork together with select cuts of Cracker, Wilco, Joy Division and The National without his help.
I think there are comments/actions musicians can take that'll sour me on them for a while, but only a few sorts of things are unforgivable. People do/say stupid shit all the time.
I think there are comments/actions musicians can take that'll sour me on them for a while, but only a few sorts of things are unforgivable. People do/say stupid shit all the time.
45
Bad Brains is a tough band to come to grips with and still be a fan. HR is may be mentally ill but his level of douche baggery regarding GLBT et al is still mind boggling. The rest of band seems no better. I've still got my memories of the 80s when the band seemed to bring disperate things together but now I can't listen without getting pissed off. Maybe things have changed in recent years. I doubt it.
46
It usually involves seeing reunions or posthumous outings from particular members. I've probably seen Aurthur Lee 5 times. I haven't listened to Love since.
Some bands have pulled it off, but it's always a wildcard going in that you may never want to listen to those records again.
Some bands have pulled it off, but it's always a wildcard going in that you may never want to listen to those records again.
48
Record the "Black Album." Oops. Too late.
@28 Yusef Islam never condemned anyone to death. He was grossly misquoted. As a new scholar of the Koran he simply said, "The Koran says blasphemers should be put to death," the media then ran with that as him endorsing Rushdie's death.
@28 Yusef Islam never condemned anyone to death. He was grossly misquoted. As a new scholar of the Koran he simply said, "The Koran says blasphemers should be put to death," the media then ran with that as him endorsing Rushdie's death.
49
I may still listen to a band, but if they really do something that upsets me, I will stop giving them my money. No buying their new CDs or going to their show. Although I can't really think of any band I've boycotted so far, so I guess it has to be something pretty bad.
50
There is absolutely nothing that David Bowie could do, or Frank Sinatra could have done, to make me stop listening to their music.
51
I won't listen to Burzum, and unfortunately, although it kills me, I won't listen to Dissection either because the bassist murdered a guy who came onto him in a bar. Burzum I can take or leave, but DIssection really hurts. What can I say though? Principles are more important than groundbreaking integrations of traditional black metal and technical death metal, sad as it may be.
52
This is an easy one, people: I would completely, absolutely, entirely abandon my favorite band forever if they ever open for Nickelback.
53
@48,
Can you support that? I had refused to listen to Islam AFTER that disclosure (his early music as Cat Stevens OK). That is his apparent endorsement of "Fatwa" to Salman Rushdie. I recall many people were upset. I believe the late Christopher Hitchens was not amused. When did it happen, 22 or so years ago? For awhile Yusef Islam was refused a visa entry to the USA.
On the other hand, I will NOT listen to R. Kelly. What he did was filmed. As I recall, he was simply acquitted of "soliciting a minor for child pronography" among other charges. Nope, he's nasty.
Can you support that? I had refused to listen to Islam AFTER that disclosure (his early music as Cat Stevens OK). That is his apparent endorsement of "Fatwa" to Salman Rushdie. I recall many people were upset. I believe the late Christopher Hitchens was not amused. When did it happen, 22 or so years ago? For awhile Yusef Islam was refused a visa entry to the USA.
On the other hand, I will NOT listen to R. Kelly. What he did was filmed. As I recall, he was simply acquitted of "soliciting a minor for child pronography" among other charges. Nope, he's nasty.
54
I can't imagine what Dylan could do to make me forsake him. I stuck with him when he went electric, when he became born-again, even when he shilled for Victoria's Secret.
If he did something unconscionable (like, say, disco or death metal or gangsta rap), I suppose I'd have to console myself by listening only to the first half-century of his oeuvre.
If he did something unconscionable (like, say, disco or death metal or gangsta rap), I suppose I'd have to console myself by listening only to the first half-century of his oeuvre.
55
I never really liked nor disliked QOTSA that much... until Josh Homme got all jocky and threw a hissy fit against that kid (his "chicken shit fucking faggot") because the kid threw a shoe onstage at a festival.
Now I go out of my way to diss him, and refuse listen to any band of his.
Now I go out of my way to diss him, and refuse listen to any band of his.
56
Hmmmmm, I've been reading the comments thinking it's easy not to listen to the later works of artists that have done something unsavory - later Prince, later Cat Stevens, later Michael Jackson - because the music they made after bumming everyone out isn't really that revelatory. I was trying to think of an artist who did something horrible and then made great music to see if I care and #53 got me: R. Kelly has made amazing post-piss video music. 'Chocolate Factory' is an incredible album and I don't feel bad listening to it, I don't know what that says about me or about the power of music.
So far I haven't thought of an instance where I've been completely turned off by a musician due to their personality or poor life choices and I really don't think I will.
So far I haven't thought of an instance where I've been completely turned off by a musician due to their personality or poor life choices and I really don't think I will.
57
Once I find out an artist I like is a christian, or they become overly political, it pretty much kills it for me. I'm into the sleazier aspects of music so the violence and mayhem doesn't bother me. Sex, drugs and rock and roll baby! Spare me your politics or holier than thou nonsense.
58
Proven child molester would do it for me - and I hate to say it but I didn't listen to (and still don't very much) old Cat Stevens stuff for quite a while. I think I felt betrayed somehow.
60
I was going to say that I can always separate the art from the artist and then somebody mentioned Gary Glitter. And yet, I enjoy Roman Polanski's movies, as well as R Kelly's music. And I also like John Bonham's drumming for Led Zeppelin. Am I a hypocrite? Probably. But then again, I'm not impressed with Gary Glitter's one famous hit. I guess I'm willing to ignore that an artist is a child rapist (or plain rapist, in Bonham's case, supposedly) if their work is good enough. If any of them punched a woman, I'd probably still enjoy their work, provided it's good enough. It may cast a shadow, but... I know, because I still like Dr. Dre, Easy E, The Who, etc. However, if I could relate any of these actions to my personal life, I might not be so forgiving.
61
Animal cruelty. Fuck you, fuck your music. Child abuse/cruelty is almost a perfect deal-breaker, but I can't give up Michael Jackson.
62
@53 http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/c…
"I'm very sad that this seems to be the No. 1 question people want to discuss. I had nothing to do with the issue other than what the media created. I was innocently drawn into the whole controversy. So, after many years, I'm glad at least now that I have been given the opportunity to explain to the public and fans my side of the story in my own words. At a lecture, back in 1989, I was asked a question about blasphemy according to Islamic Law, I simply repeated the legal view according to my limited knowledge of the Scriptural texts, based directly on historical commentaries of the Qur'an. The next day the newspaper headlines read, "Cat Says, Kill Rushdie." I was abhorred [appalled?], but what could I do? I was a new Muslim. If you ask a Bible student to quote the legal punishment of a person who commits blasphemy in the Bible, he would be dishonest if he didn't mention Leviticus 24:16"
"I'm very sad that this seems to be the No. 1 question people want to discuss. I had nothing to do with the issue other than what the media created. I was innocently drawn into the whole controversy. So, after many years, I'm glad at least now that I have been given the opportunity to explain to the public and fans my side of the story in my own words. At a lecture, back in 1989, I was asked a question about blasphemy according to Islamic Law, I simply repeated the legal view according to my limited knowledge of the Scriptural texts, based directly on historical commentaries of the Qur'an. The next day the newspaper headlines read, "Cat Says, Kill Rushdie." I was abhorred [appalled?], but what could I do? I was a new Muslim. If you ask a Bible student to quote the legal punishment of a person who commits blasphemy in the Bible, he would be dishonest if he didn't mention Leviticus 24:16"
63
Greg Dulli is COMPLETE misogynist. When I first discovered this, I vowed to give up listening to the his music, but now I just think it's sorta funny
65
@59...I complete forgot animal cruelty...but yes, definitely. That would do it for me instantly. And again with the political thing, I lose complete respect for an artist if he or she comes out supporting right-wing conservative ideas and people. (cough)Dennis Miller(cough) That usually removes them from my playlist pronto. Just can't get over it.
Thank heavens I was never into Kid Rock, eh?
Thank heavens I was never into Kid Rock, eh?
66
Fortunately a majority of conservative entertainers "coincidentally" make shitty entertainment. As far as Dennis Miller is concerned I have heard stories that he is a shitty tipper. Being a shitty tipper would get you on my fuck off list pretty quick.
67
Note to self: typing while walking dog= me sounding even dumber than usual.
P.S. Shame on anyone for speaking ill of John Richards
P.S. Shame on anyone for speaking ill of John Richards
68
If my favorite musician were to buy an island, fill it with puppies, and promise to bash a puppy's head in and toss its body into the ocean every time someone played his or her music, I'd probably stop listening to it.
69
Are you kidding me? The worse the artist's morals the better the music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVEmpgBjF…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVEmpgBjF…
70
That's a really good question. I don't even know. I mean, I still listed to "Death of a Ladies Man", even though I know Phil Spector threatened Leonard Cohen with a gun, forced him out of the studio, and took complete control of the album (and, of course, was later convicted of murder). I can't imagine there's anything Leonard Cohen could do to stop me listening to his music, except maybe some kind of attack against me personally, or someone I knew.
That being said, when I was a kid, I was a huge Arlo Guthrie fan. I when I was in high school, I got to set up chairs for a show, and I was so excited. I brought my guitar and asked him to autograph it for me, and he totally snubbed me. It took me a really long time to get over that and be able to enjoy his music again.
Morality becomes weirdly relative when it comes to our favourite celebrities, doesn't it? We're willing to overlook all kinds of BS for our idols. It's like they're the Greek pantheon or something.
That being said, when I was a kid, I was a huge Arlo Guthrie fan. I when I was in high school, I got to set up chairs for a show, and I was so excited. I brought my guitar and asked him to autograph it for me, and he totally snubbed me. It took me a really long time to get over that and be able to enjoy his music again.
Morality becomes weirdly relative when it comes to our favourite celebrities, doesn't it? We're willing to overlook all kinds of BS for our idols. It's like they're the Greek pantheon or something.
72
You know, pop-culture is rolling along just fine if it can inspire a sentence like, 'R. Kelly has made amazing post-piss video music'.
73
I dunno - I really like Hole (Nobody's Daughter kicks ass btw ) so I imagine if Courtney Love hasn't done something to make me hate her enough to stop listening to my Hole albums by now, it probably can't be done.
74
@70: old Arlo went off my rotation permanently when he came out as a republican/libertarian a few years back. Not surprised to hear your story. Republicans (especially the closeted type) are awful, terrible people.
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