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Friday, August 31, 2012
Politics How Much of Their Advertisers' Money Is Poster Giant Going to Spend?
Posted by Dominic Holden on Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 4:58 PM
That's my question.
We've been watching the war between activist group Grrl Army and Poster Giant—the promotions company that uses public spaces as its own, private advertising venues—for over a week now. This wall outside our office is ground zero and the stakes have escalated, with the rivaling sides covering each others' posters with more elaborate works with increasing frequency. In the latest salvo, even before 9:00 a.m., a man was out there this morning using a shovel to dismantle Grrl Army's installation of coat hangers (a statement about illegal abortions and preventing new posters from being put up).
Here's shovel bro:
Then Poster Giant slapped up some posters, which were up for—what—an hour? They weren't there long. A woman not affiliated with Grrl Army came by and slathered pink paint across the wall. Here's the result:
Which is to say that in a few quick minutes at minimal expense, the community took back its wall. The community is claiming this space—for its shows, its art, its activism. There's got to be a point at which Poster Giant is just pissing away all those expensive-to-print posters—that are getting covered right up away—in their weird obsession with monopolizing public space. Presumably at the expense of their advertisers.
I know that if I was hiring Poster Giant, I sure as hell wouldn't want them postering that wall. Advertisers pay to print those posters and then pay Poster Giant to put them up. The posters that are put up on this wall make the advertisers look like assholes. That is, if people even see their posters, because they're covered up so damn fast.
2
It seems like this battle has been going on for months now. Poster Giant started squatting on this space quite a while ago (previously it was used by anybody and everybody, just like the spaces adjacent to it), and they re-cover it almost daily. That's a hell of a lot of paper. The main thing I've been wondering is, who or what gives them the right to claim this space as theirs exclusively? Is it rented from the owners of the building, or are they just being dicks? And why is this corner so important to them that they're willing to squander what's left of their reputation on it?
3
I watched a poster giant guy smash up the lights that were on the wall earlier this week. I gave him my meanest look (which is pretty nasty), but I didn't say anything. I know not the rules of poster posting.
6
I know I vexed some people with my comments on the scandal involving Poster Giant and the "public art" on that abandoned building down in Pioneer Square, but I'll say it again: Why do we allow these buildings to decay and be vandalized? I could see it if we were in some hellhole like Omaha, but we're a real city with valuable real estate. Make these landlords keep up their buildings, or have the city do it and charge them accordingly. Covering blight, whether it be posters or some happytime artsy nonsense is hopelessly 70's.
7
Fines for exceeding X square feet of space on any surface, exempting art and DIY ads. Do it, City Council.
10
Yes, but if you were hiring Poster Giant, you would, by definition, be a sleazy idiot, and you'd probably be an agent or promoter frittering away someone else's money. You might also be the kind of shitbag who aligns himself, knowingly or not, with the rape culture that Grrl Army demonstrates against, and therefore pleased to antagonize them.
Also, seriously, why didn't you throw something at shovel bro? At least some nasty words and a threat to call the cops, if not anything physical. Maybe get some close-up pics to post?
They'll never learn if you don't punish them.
I don't know why I'm taking a side in this. I don't live on the Hill or anything. I just kinda dislike Poster Giant and their model.
Also, seriously, why didn't you throw something at shovel bro? At least some nasty words and a threat to call the cops, if not anything physical. Maybe get some close-up pics to post?
They'll never learn if you don't punish them.
I don't know why I'm taking a side in this. I don't live on the Hill or anything. I just kinda dislike Poster Giant and their model.
12
"Rape culture" is the culture that theorizes that it isn't "legitimate rape" if the woman got pregnant, or didn't fight back, or didn't immediately call the cops, or DID immediately call the cops but she was asking for it by dressing like that. Yes, it's a real thing. It's heartbreakingly real.
14
@12, HUH??? what the fuck are you yammering on about? so, if your definition of "rape culture" is to be trusted (and it isn't, because it doesn't actual exist) then what the fuck does that have to do with advertising posters? are the posters advertising rape? you're "heartbreakingly" (not a word) silly.
15
@ Dominic & Catalina, I live in a [very] rural community with a bizarrely warped and constrained real-estate market. I'll spare you the details, but I've become interested in the Center for Community Progress (formerly the National Vacant Property Campaign).
Basically, they encourage communities (hundreds across the country have already done so) to adopt ordinances governing vacant property, whether commercial or residential or both, in such a way as to make it financially disadvantageous for absentee owners to keep properties vacant for speculative purposes and especially to allow them to become weed-choked, vandalized, public-safety hazards (it's common for water and power to be shut off, for example, disabling fire sprinklers and alarm systems).
This is done, as I understand it, by 1) requiring clear documentation of financially-responsible parties, 2) establishing standards for appearance and maintenance, and 3) requiring frequent inspections (for which the property owner must pay fees approximating market values for rent/lease) to ensure that the codes are met. This provides strong incentives to find tenants/buyers at the going rates.
I don't know where Seattle is with regard to these issues, but I'm guessing the existing rules are pretty lax.
Basically, they encourage communities (hundreds across the country have already done so) to adopt ordinances governing vacant property, whether commercial or residential or both, in such a way as to make it financially disadvantageous for absentee owners to keep properties vacant for speculative purposes and especially to allow them to become weed-choked, vandalized, public-safety hazards (it's common for water and power to be shut off, for example, disabling fire sprinklers and alarm systems).
This is done, as I understand it, by 1) requiring clear documentation of financially-responsible parties, 2) establishing standards for appearance and maintenance, and 3) requiring frequent inspections (for which the property owner must pay fees approximating market values for rent/lease) to ensure that the codes are met. This provides strong incentives to find tenants/buyers at the going rates.
I don't know where Seattle is with regard to these issues, but I'm guessing the existing rules are pretty lax.
16
Hey guys, here's an up-close picture of said Shovel Bro I took this morning as I was about to drive by: https://p.twimg.com/A1pFf5hCYAAHK_I.jpg:…
I asked multiple times if he was with Poster Giant and he would not respond, not even one word. I told him that what he was doing was "such a great thing for the community!" and also reminded him, in reference to his Op Ivy shirt, to "UP THA PUNX!"
I asked multiple times if he was with Poster Giant and he would not respond, not even one word. I told him that what he was doing was "such a great thing for the community!" and also reminded him, in reference to his Op Ivy shirt, to "UP THA PUNX!"
17
@14, take a look at the pictures in the post, dummy. Then read my comment. Then maybe read something besides Reddit and the Republican platform.
Actually, I see you've already made up your mind - a culture in which the victims are more often than not blamed for being raped is apparently not enough of a "rape culture" for you to feel that it exists - so maybe don't bother. Just fuck right off.
Actually, I see you've already made up your mind - a culture in which the victims are more often than not blamed for being raped is apparently not enough of a "rape culture" for you to feel that it exists - so maybe don't bother. Just fuck right off.
18
You mean in the absence of government authority, commercial interests still conflict with the whims independent artistes?
19
If postering there makes the advertisers look like assholes, what does that say about the people who vandalize the place for the sake of their "art" or making their presumably feminist statement?
20
@14: It's hard to see something you're surrounded by every day, isn't it? Try stepping outside your bubble sometime. It's a big world out there.
21
I hope poster giant goes out of business in a hurry. They are a pox on the city. All they do is trash the neighborhoods for companies who don't fucking think they need to do regular advertising so they go for the cheap shit and make all the neighborhoods like like a fucking toilet.
22
You'd be surprised how many local non-profit organizations advertise though poster giant. Those guys do a hell of a lot more than wheatpasting.
Anyways I do have to ask; If postering there makes the advertisers look like assholes, what does that say about the people who vandalize the place for the sake of their "art" or making their presumably feminist statement?
Anyways I do have to ask; If postering there makes the advertisers look like assholes, what does that say about the people who vandalize the place for the sake of their "art" or making their presumably feminist statement?
23
Funny use of the word public to describe private property. Mind you, you probably also think Grrl Army has womyn who are identifiably female in daylight.
26
@10: Yeah, there's a lot more people that use postergiant than just the sleazeballs. I've worked for nonprofits in the past who have hired them--because it takes a lot of fucking time/money/volunteers to go all around the city putting up posters, so sometimes it's worth it just to spend the few hundred dollars with them. I don't really get how PG decides whose posters they put where....but I've never seen nonprofit ones on that big space. I don't know if you can specifically ask them to put stuff in a certain spot?
28
Is Poster Giant the same outfit that put up the posters in coffee shops and laundromats?
I'm generally opposed to intrusive advertisements, but I suppose there is some value to the community in posting info for upcoming arts & culture events.
How does the money flow? Do the coffee shops get a cut of the advertising money?
I'm generally opposed to intrusive advertisements, but I suppose there is some value to the community in posting info for upcoming arts & culture events.
How does the money flow? Do the coffee shops get a cut of the advertising money?
29
Back when I was in school, it was pretty widely understood that using "fuck" in an insult, or in a manner meant to denigrate or delegitimize, is perhaps the most obvious example of unconsciously internalized rape culture to be found in contemporary American society.
I suppose they've got some new theories now.
I suppose they've got some new theories now.
30
@14, @17 - isn't college enlightening? you're both so cute and earnest. just remember to keep studying and don't party too much. your parents are spending a lot of money on your education. don't disappoint them.
31
What's with that building, anyway? It's been like that *forever*, in a pretty prime spot. Anyone know what the deal with it is? Who owns it and why haven't they redeveloped it?
33
@31 it's under review for another multi-use development. @ dominic: way to keep up on the "within 40 feet" news beat.
34
Was this really a whole post about some goddamned wall where people paper and paint things? Seriously? WHO COULD POSSIBLY GIVE A FUCK?
35
Oh, but more to the point of this post, Poster Giant is obviously being a giant dick to try to advertise here, and Grrl Army is right on to keep taking it back.
And The Stranger is right to report on this.
And The Stranger is right to report on this.
36
@11 & @14 & @30, my understanding of 'rape culture' is that it refers to jokes that seek to normalise any behaviour which involves increasing access to women's vaginas by decreasing their agency and capacity for consent. e.g. things like, when men joke about how it's good to get women drunk.
37
@30 and you keep on denigrating anyone to introduce you social concepts that will help make you think about how you behave in public. good luck at any occasion that requires you to socialize with anyone outside your demographic.
http://www.shakesville.com/2011/02/penny…
http://www.shakesville.com/2011/02/penny…
38
Um, couldn't someone from the Stranger talk to Poster Giant and see what they have to say?
Of course you'd have to insult and polarize them by calling them assholes on the cover of the paper, just like you do to so many other important stories.
Of course you'd have to insult and polarize them by calling them assholes on the cover of the paper, just like you do to so many other important stories.
39
@30, ahahahaha holy shit, you literally think you're too cool for school. I always considered that merely a figure of speech. Consider me amazed.
40
reading the comments section on any stranger article like this is so depressing.
hurrrr, what's rape culture? oppression doesn't exist in multiple forms or anything. being socially aware is something to be embarrassed about, because college costs money, i guess!
give me a fucking break, try reading a book sometime. there are some amazing, incredibly intelligent people who are part of "grrrl army," and they could use your support rather than a bunch of snide, pedantic remarks made from behind the comfort of a computer.
hurrrr, what's rape culture? oppression doesn't exist in multiple forms or anything. being socially aware is something to be embarrassed about, because college costs money, i guess!
give me a fucking break, try reading a book sometime. there are some amazing, incredibly intelligent people who are part of "grrrl army," and they could use your support rather than a bunch of snide, pedantic remarks made from behind the comfort of a computer.
41
I wonder what would happen if a local weekly newspaper, with an emphasis on music, culture & the arts --and an active. well-read blog-- started reporting on and publishing the names of Poster Giant's biggest customers? (For transparency sake, if nothing else.)
Too bad there's not a news organization like that anywhere nearby, huh?
Too bad there's not a news organization like that anywhere nearby, huh?
43
Can't one be foul mouthed and support women's rights all at the same time? I only ask because I'm part of the Planned Motherfucking Parenthood delegation.
44
That building is not a public forum and posters aren't allowed there according to the Seattle Municipal Code. This is vandalism by both Grrrrrrrrrrl Army and Poster Giants.
45
@44
oh noes! who's more in the wrong then? the activists already committed to a mild act of civil disobedience OR the licensed, tax-paying, should-maybe-have-its-clients-held-in-someway-accountable business? think really hard here! don't hurt yourself!
the thing that really pisses me off is both sides' complete disregard for all the resources they're wasting. however, if PG would just learn how to play nice and share rather than behaving like monopolizing, organized crime cocksuckers I doubt we'd be in this predicament.
oh noes! who's more in the wrong then? the activists already committed to a mild act of civil disobedience OR the licensed, tax-paying, should-maybe-have-its-clients-held-in-someway-accountable business? think really hard here! don't hurt yourself!
the thing that really pisses me off is both sides' complete disregard for all the resources they're wasting. however, if PG would just learn how to play nice and share rather than behaving like monopolizing, organized crime cocksuckers I doubt we'd be in this predicament.
46
When you preach to a choir, you can be as pedantic and abrasive as you want, and people will eat it up and high five you, but civilized discourse never involves name calling. You convince absolutely nobody of anything, because people turn their brains off when they're being insulted. Of course, you're hoping to be speaking to "people sitting on the fence", right? This goes for all of you bickering. Examine your tones, folks.
Anyhow. Yeah, Poster Giant is an urban blight when they're papering the hell out of places, and I'm not a fan of rape culture (to @30 and @45: Look, seriously, it really is a real thing. Remember that idiot senator recently with his magic "legitimate rape" vagina shield theory? People out there really are that stupid, yeah the phrase "rape culture" is preachy as hell but it's accurate) but one thing I'm unclear of is what exactly did Poster Giant do to specifically draw the Grrl Army's ire. I'm saying this from a place of ignorance, and rooting around, I can't find what started this and I'm just legitimately curious. Did they paper over a Grrl Army mural of some sort?
Anyhow. Yeah, Poster Giant is an urban blight when they're papering the hell out of places, and I'm not a fan of rape culture (to @30 and @45: Look, seriously, it really is a real thing. Remember that idiot senator recently with his magic "legitimate rape" vagina shield theory? People out there really are that stupid, yeah the phrase "rape culture" is preachy as hell but it's accurate) but one thing I'm unclear of is what exactly did Poster Giant do to specifically draw the Grrl Army's ire. I'm saying this from a place of ignorance, and rooting around, I can't find what started this and I'm just legitimately curious. Did they paper over a Grrl Army mural of some sort?
48
People use the word culture a lot without really knowing or caring what it means, I'm rather skeptical of the word and concept rape culture. Also the Fuck Rape and just angry scribbling, well its ugly. Thats not a political statement, I'm not pro rape, I just think that shit is ugly. In general I think modern Feminism has been dominated by ultras who are so radical they're not. There out there trying to convince people rape is bad(everyone agrees with you), while women still get paid less than men and deal with a lot of big social economic inequities. It tends to individualize the hell out of everything and it does sometimes come across as anti male. I get the feeling neither side has a real legit claim to the right to plaster our faces with their content, but I wouldn't expect anything less than an outright jungle of posters on Capitol Hill.
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