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Thursday, September 6, 2012
Art / Two-Block Radius / Graffiti / Street GIRL ARMY!!! Cranks It Up 10 Notches
Posted by Anna Minard on Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 5:27 PM
This is what's across the street today:
- KELLY O
- WHAT IS RAPE CULTURE? Rape Jokes. Fear culture. Dinner ≠ Booty. Disney??? Why is the victim on trial? One "No" is rape. Because it happens & did to me.
I thought I had a lot to say about it. I thought I had something insightful to offer, to add to the conversation. Something about solidarity. Something about how it's hard and painful to read a giant wall full of words about rape. Something about how it makes me feel or what it makes me think. Something about how art that makes you uncomfortable, art that makes you confront things, is a good thing. But I guess I don't have much to say; I just want people to see this. This is why I live here. This makes me proud. This conversation is bigger than the poster wall, it's bigger than a blog. Let's keep having it. Thanks, Girl Army. I love coming to work every day and seeing what new madness you're exploding on that wall and around the hood. I like that it makes people uncomfortable. Rape should make you uncomfortable. Thanks to the people who are sharing personal stories on the wall, too. That's intense. Thank you.
- KELLY O
- What is rape culture? Rape culture is where rape & sexual violence is an accepted & expected norm. It supports violence against us & makes rape seem okay. It tells us it's our fault & tells the perpetrators it's their nature. Complicity in silence = rape culture. Rape jokes are not funny. How we dress does not mean yes.
- KELLY O
- "No" does not mean "convince me."
More pictures after the jump.
- KELLY O
- FIGHT BACK
- KELLY O
- Assuming you have the right to comment on everyone who walks by.
- KELLY O
- I had panic attacks instead of coming for FOUR YEARS. Many male partners didn't find this alarming.
- KELLY O
- Don't choke me if I don't ask for it!
6
Thank you @4, for being the shining example of what these people (and others) are working on eradicating. What a joke.
7
What about using rape as a verb in a non-sexual context?
IE: "I'm going to rape your entire team with my fed Pudge" -- an average game of DOTA2
IE: "I'm going to rape your entire team with my fed Pudge" -- an average game of DOTA2
9
Some rape jokes really are funny, though. Have you seen the Grapist??(whitest kids we know). If not, you should
10
@7 It's past time to learn a new term. Wean yourself off it with "surprise sex" and "tenderly caress". Then get creative.
12
Now I know why the pole across the street is now pink.
That's not going to fade away anytime soon. Would it be wrong to say I feel my 'hood was raped by this painting? It is my free speech to say so.
That's not going to fade away anytime soon. Would it be wrong to say I feel my 'hood was raped by this painting? It is my free speech to say so.
14
Now I know why the pole across the street is now pink.
That's not going to fade away anytime soon. Would it be wrong to say I feel my 'hood was assaulted by this painting? It is my free speech to say so and I don't think the pole's protests were heard. My block certainly had no say in this matter. Interesting how imposing one's will on another is so wrong in certain circumstances, but not in others.
I guess its a question of perspective, a pink perspective out my window, on my street, likely forever.
That's not going to fade away anytime soon. Would it be wrong to say I feel my 'hood was assaulted by this painting? It is my free speech to say so and I don't think the pole's protests were heard. My block certainly had no say in this matter. Interesting how imposing one's will on another is so wrong in certain circumstances, but not in others.
I guess its a question of perspective, a pink perspective out my window, on my street, likely forever.
15
What, is the whole Pike-Pine corridor collectively menstruating this week?
BTW if I you are convinced, is that still rape? Or how about if you regret it the next morning, can it be called retroactively rapey?
"I had panic attacks instead of coming for four years. Many male partners didn't find this alarming"
Does your dildo have spell check?
BTW if I you are convinced, is that still rape? Or how about if you regret it the next morning, can it be called retroactively rapey?
"I had panic attacks instead of coming for four years. Many male partners didn't find this alarming"
Does your dildo have spell check?
17
Approximately 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
28% are an intimate.
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/sta…
Seems like part of not being raped has nothing to do with dark alleys, strange men or short skirts...and more to do with the type of company you keep.
Rather than a wall in public then, perhaps a page on Facebook, a flyer at a family reunion or a poster at a workplace where there are a lot of "young people" would be more effective.
18
@16 Expressing my opinion against senseless vandalism is as worthy as another's strong opinion on victimizing women. Except, I didn't violate private or public property doing so. Breaking the law to highlight another wrong: not a very effective argument and somewhat an ironic one when other innocent parties are harmed. Get it now?
No reason other than anger & vengeance to spread this graffiti from where it originated.
No reason other than anger & vengeance to spread this graffiti from where it originated.
19
@17 - gosh, it would be awfully helpful, then, if all the rapists would just tattoo it on their foreheads so women would know to stay away from them.
Fuck you, you fucking asshole. You are blaming rape on the victims, just like this wall is protesting against. YOU are a perfect example of rape culture.
Fuck you, you fucking asshole. You are blaming rape on the victims, just like this wall is protesting against. YOU are a perfect example of rape culture.
24
@18 are you really placing rape on relatively equal footing to subjecting someone to a pink telephone pole? rape is SUCH an aesthetic inconvenience . . . spoils the color scheme of that battered, staple-encrusted telephone pole which I SOOOOOOO adore . . .
minimizing rape is one more aspect of rape culture. Congratulations Atl2Sea! You are a functioning cog in the machine that is rape culture!
minimizing rape is one more aspect of rape culture. Congratulations Atl2Sea! You are a functioning cog in the machine that is rape culture!
26
There is no such thing as rape culture. What's scary is how many of you seem to wish for it to exist just so you can have an excuse to 'fight back'. When they stop sentencing people to 20-30 years for rape, maybe you'll have a point. But as long as rape is a felony that is universally reviled, please keep your victim mentalities to yourselves.
27
@24
I by no means minimize rape. I question the tactics being used to promote this cause. It's akin to any protest march held during rush hour traffic: it only ensnares innocent bystanders and alienates them against an otherwise sympathetic cause.
By the way, my now pink utility pole was previously free of posters but with its new hue, the posters are up and taking over, much to the dismay of my block. It was one of a handful of unmarked poles in my neighborhood.
Physical assault far outweighs the impact of vandalism. But I don't understand why rape opponents are engaging in vandalism to get their word out, causing others harm who may support their cause. These are stupid, destructive strategies.
I by no means minimize rape. I question the tactics being used to promote this cause. It's akin to any protest march held during rush hour traffic: it only ensnares innocent bystanders and alienates them against an otherwise sympathetic cause.
By the way, my now pink utility pole was previously free of posters but with its new hue, the posters are up and taking over, much to the dismay of my block. It was one of a handful of unmarked poles in my neighborhood.
Physical assault far outweighs the impact of vandalism. But I don't understand why rape opponents are engaging in vandalism to get their word out, causing others harm who may support their cause. These are stupid, destructive strategies.
28
#19
One irrelevant but incensed response deserves another:
Bill Burr: You People Are All the Same
http://movies.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movie…
29
#20
The point is that it is more likely than not and hence one who was truly against rape might focus their energies there instead.
The point is that it is more likely than not and hence one who was truly against rape might focus their energies there instead.
30
@26: The problem isn't that rapists, when convicted, don't get harsh enough sentences. That isn't a problem. The problem is the fact that most rapes are never tried.
The fault for that can't really be laid at the feet of the justice system, because the majority of rapes are never reported to the authorities. The problem is the culture: the culture that says to young women that if they don't fight back with everything they have, their rape doesn't count. Or that if she consented to have sex with a guy in the first place, that means that she issued blanket consent and she can't feel violated when it goes to a place she doesn't like and he doesn't stop. Or that if a girl gets raped while drunk at a party, she was stupid for being so drunk at a party.
Basically, in most of the situations in which people get raped, they spend enough time fearing that if they tell anyone or go to the authorities about it, they will hear about how they could've done a zillion things differently and then this terrible thing wouldn't have happened to them that by the time they get over the fear and tell someone, it's really too late to gather evidence for a case.
And the fact is, it's an incredibly common crime. 1 out of every 5 women will get sexually assaulted in her lifetime, and most rapes happen to women between the ages of 18-25. Clearly, harsh punishments are not enough to deter people from raping women. So something else has to be done.
The fault for that can't really be laid at the feet of the justice system, because the majority of rapes are never reported to the authorities. The problem is the culture: the culture that says to young women that if they don't fight back with everything they have, their rape doesn't count. Or that if she consented to have sex with a guy in the first place, that means that she issued blanket consent and she can't feel violated when it goes to a place she doesn't like and he doesn't stop. Or that if a girl gets raped while drunk at a party, she was stupid for being so drunk at a party.
Basically, in most of the situations in which people get raped, they spend enough time fearing that if they tell anyone or go to the authorities about it, they will hear about how they could've done a zillion things differently and then this terrible thing wouldn't have happened to them that by the time they get over the fear and tell someone, it's really too late to gather evidence for a case.
And the fact is, it's an incredibly common crime. 1 out of every 5 women will get sexually assaulted in her lifetime, and most rapes happen to women between the ages of 18-25. Clearly, harsh punishments are not enough to deter people from raping women. So something else has to be done.
31
"the culture that says to young women that if they don't fight back with everything they have, their rape doesn't count."
I disagree. That's not what our culture says at all. Not even close. In fact, our culture is intensely sensitive to rape. They have precise special procedures and support mechanisms in place for anyone who claims to have been raped, in able to avoid the exact problem you describe. There are cases of false accusers not being tried for lying to police and perjury, despite disastrous consequences to the accused, simply to avoid scaring off potential victims. I fail to see how a culture that goes to those lengths is a 'rape culture.' They drill it into our minds that all the scenarios you mentioned are rape, and that victims are not at fault and not to be blamed.
Sure there are a handful of cases where the victim has been incorrectly, aggressively second-guessed and even had some of those excuses thrown out. But that by no means constitutes an entire CULTURE.
I'd also be curious to see the definition of sexual assault used to get that 1 in 5 number. I've seen some pretty broad definitions of sexual assault, many of which applied to things I've done and things that have been done to me. I have never experienced sexual assault, yet if taken broadly enough, I have technically been 'raped.'
Also, I wonder if the rumors about having "hear about how they could've done a zillion things differently," (which is at the very least not a procedural approach), doesn't do more to dissuade victims from coming forward than the so-called 'rape culture.' Perhaps the scare tactics that fluff such numbers like 1/5 have the capacity to work AGAINST the stated goal?
As far as I can tell, 'rape culture' is just a straw man to beat on. But why? What's the goal, exactly?
More...
I disagree. That's not what our culture says at all. Not even close. In fact, our culture is intensely sensitive to rape. They have precise special procedures and support mechanisms in place for anyone who claims to have been raped, in able to avoid the exact problem you describe. There are cases of false accusers not being tried for lying to police and perjury, despite disastrous consequences to the accused, simply to avoid scaring off potential victims. I fail to see how a culture that goes to those lengths is a 'rape culture.' They drill it into our minds that all the scenarios you mentioned are rape, and that victims are not at fault and not to be blamed.
Sure there are a handful of cases where the victim has been incorrectly, aggressively second-guessed and even had some of those excuses thrown out. But that by no means constitutes an entire CULTURE.
I'd also be curious to see the definition of sexual assault used to get that 1 in 5 number. I've seen some pretty broad definitions of sexual assault, many of which applied to things I've done and things that have been done to me. I have never experienced sexual assault, yet if taken broadly enough, I have technically been 'raped.'
Also, I wonder if the rumors about having "hear about how they could've done a zillion things differently," (which is at the very least not a procedural approach), doesn't do more to dissuade victims from coming forward than the so-called 'rape culture.' Perhaps the scare tactics that fluff such numbers like 1/5 have the capacity to work AGAINST the stated goal?
As far as I can tell, 'rape culture' is just a straw man to beat on. But why? What's the goal, exactly?
32
@18
Nothing that was done in this project was illegal. In fact, all the wooden poles in the city are free space, and perfectly okay to paint. As someone who took part in this project I find it very offensive that you would say that we "raped" your neighborhood. Just to be clear, I would have done it if it weren't legal. But to equate painting light poles with one of the most horrible acts anyone can experience is just disgusting. You should feel ashamed of yourself.
To the rest of the assholes on here:
You disgust me. This is one of the worst threads I have seen on this site in a long time.
Nothing that was done in this project was illegal. In fact, all the wooden poles in the city are free space, and perfectly okay to paint. As someone who took part in this project I find it very offensive that you would say that we "raped" your neighborhood. Just to be clear, I would have done it if it weren't legal. But to equate painting light poles with one of the most horrible acts anyone can experience is just disgusting. You should feel ashamed of yourself.
To the rest of the assholes on here:
You disgust me. This is one of the worst threads I have seen on this site in a long time.
33
Rape culture? Maybe you all should think about that next time you glorify some pimp-glorifying, bitch slapping rapper on Slog.
' all the wooden poles in the city are free space, and perfectly okay to paint.'
Errrr, no, the poles are City property and it is in fact illegal to deface them. Maybe they're too phallic for you, but still, illegal to paint, bite, punch or kick them. But now I, the taxpayer, will pay to clean up your mess.
And please use spell check before your next bout of hysteria meets some pink paint and public property.
' all the wooden poles in the city are free space, and perfectly okay to paint.'
Errrr, no, the poles are City property and it is in fact illegal to deface them. Maybe they're too phallic for you, but still, illegal to paint, bite, punch or kick them. But now I, the taxpayer, will pay to clean up your mess.
And please use spell check before your next bout of hysteria meets some pink paint and public property.
34
Very good work Girl Army! I don't live in Seattle, but I live in the world, so thank you.
I see traces of rape culture all through American music, TV & movies. It's disgusting how normalised it is in the media. This message is important & isn't shouted loudly or enough.
Rape is an act of terror. When it's mostly women who are raped in our society, each rape is an act of terrorism, because it makes women fear to walk alone at night, (amongst other freedoms).
Thank you!
I see traces of rape culture all through American music, TV & movies. It's disgusting how normalised it is in the media. This message is important & isn't shouted loudly or enough.
Rape is an act of terror. When it's mostly women who are raped in our society, each rape is an act of terrorism, because it makes women fear to walk alone at night, (amongst other freedoms).
Thank you!
35
I find the way RadFemological images analyses the media goes a bit further than how I see things, but I find their analysis of TV ads interesting. Here is a collection of their rape culture critiques of TV ads; http://radfemimages.wordpress.com/catego…
37
I agree with 26.
@35 I looked at your link. I can easily argue that none of the ads were "rapey". One was a simple picture of gin with a caption that said "This ad depicts rape culture too, because alcohol reduces capacity to consent".
Thank you for starting my day with a good hearty laugh. b
@35 I looked at your link. I can easily argue that none of the ads were "rapey". One was a simple picture of gin with a caption that said "This ad depicts rape culture too, because alcohol reduces capacity to consent".
Thank you for starting my day with a good hearty laugh. b
38
"One was a simple picture of gin with a caption that said "This ad depicts rape culture too, because alcohol reduces capacity to consent".
These ladies think all sex is rape. Joyless, tiresome and laughable.
These ladies think all sex is rape. Joyless, tiresome and laughable.
39
@9 and also, another rape joke that might be an exception to the "rape jokes can't be funny" line is sarah silverman's "I'm part Mongolian rapist" joke @ 3:00 on this link; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZOp8BKac…
40
It's sad how many of apologists/deniers there are here. It must be nice being a dude (not a man, these aren't real men).
41
@39 So is rape an act of terrorism or just fucking hilarious? Make up your mind.
@40 No, not deniers or apologists. Just people who are not extremists that see rape everywhere we look.
Time to hit the beach. Have a great day Sloggers!
@40 No, not deniers or apologists. Just people who are not extremists that see rape everywhere we look.
Time to hit the beach. Have a great day Sloggers!
42
"Furthermore, women have every reason in the world to oppose drugs and alcohol because they are used against women to reduce our “inhibitions” and our known, legitimate personal and political resistance to unwanted intercourse "
Woo hooo!
Woo hooo!
43
@40. I am a woman (and maybe even a rape victim) and I have mixed feelings about this wall. I guess the bottom line is that if this "art" somehow helps these women deal with what happened to them, good for them. To me it seems an adolescent "look at me...I'm so radical and subversive" cry for acknowledgement.
45
@34 "Rape is an act of terror."
I have no doubt that rape is terrorizing, but given all the scenarios that fit the definition of rape, there is definitely a significant portion of perpetrators who were more interested in getting "some" than in anything about the experience for the victim.
While I don't agree with many of TortiseTurtle's points, I think that the point that the argument that "dark alley rape is really bad and the fault of the rapist" has been pretty much won. At this point, I think the rhetoric about rape needs to be more about building an "enthusiastic yes culture".
I have no doubt that rape is terrorizing, but given all the scenarios that fit the definition of rape, there is definitely a significant portion of perpetrators who were more interested in getting "some" than in anything about the experience for the victim.
While I don't agree with many of TortiseTurtle's points, I think that the point that the argument that "dark alley rape is really bad and the fault of the rapist" has been pretty much won. At this point, I think the rhetoric about rape needs to be more about building an "enthusiastic yes culture".
50
@47: Waking up with a man 3 times your size and 10 years older than you ( when you are a 13 or 14 year old virgin)inside of you= rape. Screaming No! Stop! and having your mouth covered while he finishes= rape.
Letting an event like this make you angry and hateful= bullshit
Letting an event like this make you angry and hateful= bullshit
51
@33 No, actually it was not illegal. Those poles are free space. Ever notice all the posters stapled to them? You ever have pay for those to get removed? No. If it was illegal I'm sure one of the many cops that drove by and looked at us while we did this would have stopped and said something. Now quit crying about it and focus on the message.
52
On a positive note, I choose to remember my first sexual experience as the first time I had sex with my high school boyfriend. And I try to understand that the dude that raped me wasn't born a rapist. I'm sure he must have been through his own traumas that led him to feel okay with doing what he did.
53
My goodness. I thought I was reading Reddit comments for a minute there. Who knew that so many rape apologists read the Slog? I suppose this demonstrates -- albeit in a sickening way -- why Girl Army's work is so relevant and necessary.
54
Julie, enjoying life and enjoying men is not anti-woman. I'm happy that you are able to move on and be happy, truly! But, implying these women are not doing the same by your condescending comment is anti-woman. Anti-rape /= anti-man, or an unhappy person. This is an expression of frustration or outrage at a culture that dehumanizes a person based on their sex/gender. It is but one form of expression at an important issue for many people.
55
If you read my comments above, I said good for these women if this "expression" helps them. We all deal in our own ways.
56
@54: Anti-rape /= anti-man
I agree with you, but much of the rhetoric around "rape culture" is, in fact, anti-man. Saying things like "only men can stop rape" implies that a) only men are capable of raping someone and b) all men are complicit in rape. This rhetoric paints all men as criminals perpetuating a rape holocaust and women as perpetual victims unable to effect change. It's weirdly sexist against women, in a way.
Also, why is it that only the crime of rape is given its own culture? According to the FBI, aggravated assault is the most common violent crime. Do we live in an aggravated assault culture? A burglary culture? A murder culture? It seems clear that all these things are wrong. Why don't we discuss these crimes in that manner? Why is it necessary to demonize all men by lumping them in with rapists?
This is an expression of frustration or outrage at a culture that dehumanizes a person based on their sex/gender.
Oh, irony. Men are routinely dehumanized by feminist rhetoric, and it's taking hold in mainstream culture, even among males. Do I see "Men for Misandry" written in in the second picture? Sigh.
I wish we could find more positive ways to discuss these issues.
I agree with you, but much of the rhetoric around "rape culture" is, in fact, anti-man. Saying things like "only men can stop rape" implies that a) only men are capable of raping someone and b) all men are complicit in rape. This rhetoric paints all men as criminals perpetuating a rape holocaust and women as perpetual victims unable to effect change. It's weirdly sexist against women, in a way.
Also, why is it that only the crime of rape is given its own culture? According to the FBI, aggravated assault is the most common violent crime. Do we live in an aggravated assault culture? A burglary culture? A murder culture? It seems clear that all these things are wrong. Why don't we discuss these crimes in that manner? Why is it necessary to demonize all men by lumping them in with rapists?
This is an expression of frustration or outrage at a culture that dehumanizes a person based on their sex/gender.
Oh, irony. Men are routinely dehumanized by feminist rhetoric, and it's taking hold in mainstream culture, even among males. Do I see "Men for Misandry" written in in the second picture? Sigh.
I wish we could find more positive ways to discuss these issues.
57
@56: Yes, the poor men are so dehumanized by those nasty, mean feminists. Men are the real victims here. Just like white people are the victims of racism...
...asshole
...asshole
61
Furthermore, @56 and @59, do you see anywhere in these photos anything that is "anti-man"? With the exception of the "men for misandry" (written by a man, mind you), there is nothing that is "against men". We actually wanted to try to keep this as gender-neutral as possible.
If you read something that is anti-rape and you take it as anti-man, you need to look at yourself for some problems.
If you read something that is anti-rape and you take it as anti-man, you need to look at yourself for some problems.
62
I think that some of the "rhetoric" around rape culture is designed to make men aware of the fact that they are in fact, responsible for their actions. Women have lived with the responsibility of preventing their own rape, with attention put on her location, the time of night or day, her manner of dress, the amount of alcohol in her system, past sexual encounters, etc. much more than any onus being put on men to not rape. It is unfair to make women be the effectors of change, without male acknowledgement at large of the issue and participation in its ending. This should not be a one sided effort.
You are correct, not all rapists are men, women can rape as well. Women do tend to be the majority of rape victims. According to the Department of Justice, they made up 94% of "completed rape" victims from 1992-2000 (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf…). I will say that male rape is most likely vastly under reported, which is another unfortunate consequence of rape culture and the misogyny inherent in that culture.
I don't think that the purpose of acknowledging that rape culture exists is to demonize all men. I think by acknowledging that patriarchal norms of gender oppression exist, we give voice to the fact that this harms all people in a variety of ways. I think it asks for acknowledgement that this is the world we live in, and that all people, not just men, should work to change it for the better.
While there may be misandry in feminist discourse, that is not the point of feminism, nor should it be. The very definition of feminist is the "advocating (of) social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men." Equality, not superiority. The issue is that women are dealing with dehumanization not from one specific group (misogynists, for example) but from the world at large, both men and women. Hence, the anger you see in the signs. Anger is not the best way to change minds, but it does get attention.
Finally, I think we're discussing these issues with relative peace and openness, and I appreciate that.
More...
You are correct, not all rapists are men, women can rape as well. Women do tend to be the majority of rape victims. According to the Department of Justice, they made up 94% of "completed rape" victims from 1992-2000 (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf…). I will say that male rape is most likely vastly under reported, which is another unfortunate consequence of rape culture and the misogyny inherent in that culture.
I don't think that the purpose of acknowledging that rape culture exists is to demonize all men. I think by acknowledging that patriarchal norms of gender oppression exist, we give voice to the fact that this harms all people in a variety of ways. I think it asks for acknowledgement that this is the world we live in, and that all people, not just men, should work to change it for the better.
While there may be misandry in feminist discourse, that is not the point of feminism, nor should it be. The very definition of feminist is the "advocating (of) social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men." Equality, not superiority. The issue is that women are dealing with dehumanization not from one specific group (misogynists, for example) but from the world at large, both men and women. Hence, the anger you see in the signs. Anger is not the best way to change minds, but it does get attention.
Finally, I think we're discussing these issues with relative peace and openness, and I appreciate that.
63
@35: the people running that site seem to think that what makes an ad support rape is if they put a "rape culture" tag next to it on their website.
Can anyone explain how the Mike's Hard lemonade ad is "rape culture" or "PIV centric?"
The woman taking erotic control of a man in the tequila ad is "rape culture" and "normalize neglect?"
It is self-serving, completely ridiculous "analysis" like this that is the exact reason so many people do not/can not take the modern feminist movement seriously. It has been pretty well hijacked by nonsense like this.
DISCLAIMER: My comment should ONLY be taken as a critique of that one website, not everything having to do with feminism/women. Please.
Can anyone explain how the Mike's Hard lemonade ad is "rape culture" or "PIV centric?"
The woman taking erotic control of a man in the tequila ad is "rape culture" and "normalize neglect?"
It is self-serving, completely ridiculous "analysis" like this that is the exact reason so many people do not/can not take the modern feminist movement seriously. It has been pretty well hijacked by nonsense like this.
DISCLAIMER: My comment should ONLY be taken as a critique of that one website, not everything having to do with feminism/women. Please.
67
3 clubs I have no desire to be a part of are 1) Feminists 2) Rapists 3)Slog Commenter A-holes/Stranger folks.
Hearing people who know about rape only in theory intellectualize about it is annoying. If my contributions to the discussion make me seem to be "trying hard" for something...maybe just to show that not all rape victims have the same views about what happened to them
Hearing people who know about rape only in theory intellectualize about it is annoying. If my contributions to the discussion make me seem to be "trying hard" for something...maybe just to show that not all rape victims have the same views about what happened to them
68
You are exactly right Julie, not all rape victims have the same views. But theoretical and intellectual are two things I enjoy! I do NOT enjoy people that don't want equal social and political rights for women (feminists) because that is gross. Sorry if that makes me a not fun slog commenter. :(
69
#64, Ha! The saddest part is that if this were an issue about dog's rights, Julie would be all over that post defending the dogs.
But women, whatever, they should just relax, man. Getting mad about having been raped is such bullshit. Laugh it off, bitches!
But women, whatever, they should just relax, man. Getting mad about having been raped is such bullshit. Laugh it off, bitches!
71
I never said I oppose women's rights or think rape is okay. Nor did I say I don't support equal rights for men and women...just that this example of "expression" seems somewhat adolescent
72
@69...when fighting for dog related issues, I never vandalized public property. I had tasteful, removable signs made and hung them all over the city
73
Lay off the dogs why don't you; unlike angry, radical feminists fresh out of a gender studies program at Evergreen State, dogs have personality, are better groomed and are cute.
74
@ 32 Get a grip, get real, and calm down
@ 33 Thanks for trying to reason with 32
GLITUR_Chad: Details of Seattle's pole posting rules can be found at: http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/po…
Posting is a regulated activity, allowed within certain parameters, including size, placement, and printed posting dates, and flyers must be removed within prescribed time frames.
• When are you planning to remove the flyers you put up on 11th street?
• Did you place the required printed posting date on your poster?
• Is your poster free from covering up an existing flyer?
If any of your answers are in the negative, you're in violation of the above ordinance. Regarding your pink pole painting, that's vandalism pure and simple, not free speech, and that is illegal.
BTW: if you had bothered to read, I edited my first comment, toning down my rhetoric and checked my facts. Perhaps you can do the same?
@ 33 Thanks for trying to reason with 32
GLITUR_Chad: Details of Seattle's pole posting rules can be found at: http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/po…
Posting is a regulated activity, allowed within certain parameters, including size, placement, and printed posting dates, and flyers must be removed within prescribed time frames.
• When are you planning to remove the flyers you put up on 11th street?
• Did you place the required printed posting date on your poster?
• Is your poster free from covering up an existing flyer?
If any of your answers are in the negative, you're in violation of the above ordinance. Regarding your pink pole painting, that's vandalism pure and simple, not free speech, and that is illegal.
BTW: if you had bothered to read, I edited my first comment, toning down my rhetoric and checked my facts. Perhaps you can do the same?
75
@62: To be clear, I'm not minimizing the impact of rape at all. And I believe firmly in equal rights and fair treatment for everyone (so much so that using gendered language like "feminism" to describe ideals that are more accurately described as "egalitarianism" is distasteful to me). What I'm taking issue with here is the type of language which shuts down rational discussion and pits men and women against each other. I'm taking issue with the idea that half of humanity can be painted with such a broad brush, just as you would if it was women being maligned.
You do it @40 when you say that men who don't toe the line of your definition of "rape culture" are deniers and apologists. Are men allowed to discuss these things openly without being part of a vast rapist conspiracy? You even say they aren't "real men." I guess you get to pick and choose gender roles and how they are enforced? Aren't we doing away with that stuff?
Again: Irony.
You do it @40 when you say that men who don't toe the line of your definition of "rape culture" are deniers and apologists. Are men allowed to discuss these things openly without being part of a vast rapist conspiracy? You even say they aren't "real men." I guess you get to pick and choose gender roles and how they are enforced? Aren't we doing away with that stuff?
Again: Irony.
76
#73, as far as trolling goes, you really need to work on your material. That shit is just pathetically cringeworthy and unoriginal, dude.
77
@74: The police who did talk to us that night didn't say we were doing anything wrong, and even told us that if we needed anything to just ask. Doesn't sound like we were breaking the law. As far as "toning it down", I didn't think I was being particularly harsh. I certainly can be, but I was actually holding back.
80
@ 78
I guess this means "you can't handle the truth . . ."
So much for constructive blogging. One wins a debate when the other side starts cussing.
I guess this means "you can't handle the truth . . ."
So much for constructive blogging. One wins a debate when the other side starts cussing.
81
#80, Funny, I think one wins the debate when the other side starts acting like a condescending ass. But then I must not be "enlightened" enough to understand the nuances of your "toned down rhetoric."
82
@81
Whoever you are, posting under several aliases:
Posters are allowed under certain conditions. Pole painting is vandalism and thus illegal. End of story.
Sorry to burst your bubble by informing you of the law. But, if can't take the heat, get out of the blog kitchen. Name calling is childish.
Sign me: TEA PARTIES: Something little girls do with their imaginary friends.
Whoever you are, posting under several aliases:
Posters are allowed under certain conditions. Pole painting is vandalism and thus illegal. End of story.
Sorry to burst your bubble by informing you of the law. But, if can't take the heat, get out of the blog kitchen. Name calling is childish.
Sign me: TEA PARTIES: Something little girls do with their imaginary friends.
83
@82:
I don't think anybody here is using multiple names.
As I said before, we were not breaking any laws or ordinances. We had permission. The police had no problem with what we were doing. Though, I still would have done it either way. This is my neighborhood, too.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but commenting on a thread is not "blogging". Also, you are wrong about everything else.
You are also a condescending ass.
I don't think anybody here is using multiple names.
As I said before, we were not breaking any laws or ordinances. We had permission. The police had no problem with what we were doing. Though, I still would have done it either way. This is my neighborhood, too.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but commenting on a thread is not "blogging". Also, you are wrong about everything else.
You are also a condescending ass.
84
What line of rape culture did I set out for people to toe? To say that it exists in the first place? I don't think I set up an entire definition of what constitute rape culture, because that would take a reaeeeeally long time, and I don't think I could be so exhaustive.
Yes, I think that the people on here mocking or making rude comments are not real men. They are trolls and children. This has nothing to do with gender, but about being an adult in civilized society (yes! even on the internet!!).
What is the language being used to shut down discussion? I restate: This is not to paint all men as bad people, but to raise awareness that this is not a problem for only certain wo/men to bear; everyone should be aware how common and important and life destroying and anger making this is, and take time to think about it and act to help.
Yes, I think that the people on here mocking or making rude comments are not real men. They are trolls and children. This has nothing to do with gender, but about being an adult in civilized society (yes! even on the internet!!).
What is the language being used to shut down discussion? I restate: This is not to paint all men as bad people, but to raise awareness that this is not a problem for only certain wo/men to bear; everyone should be aware how common and important and life destroying and anger making this is, and take time to think about it and act to help.
85
@84, You made your post @40 right after posts @31 and @37 that do question the usage of the term "rape culture." Are they "apologists and deniers"? Are they allowed to talk about this and still be "real men"?
It's strange that you have to ask how that type of language shuts down discussion. They aren't defending rape. Read more carefully.
If you were addressing the unregistered person(s), you'd be better off not doing that.
It's strange that you have to ask how that type of language shuts down discussion. They aren't defending rape. Read more carefully.
If you were addressing the unregistered person(s), you'd be better off not doing that.
86
Thank you, @85.
I am a stay at home dad with a son and a daughter. I have always considered myself a feminist, and my wife and I are partners in running a progressive household. So I think it's kind of funny that some over zealous women studies major hurls insults because I don't toe her particular line of orthodoxy.
I can't believe you guys are still talking about this.
I am a stay at home dad with a son and a daughter. I have always considered myself a feminist, and my wife and I are partners in running a progressive household. So I think it's kind of funny that some over zealous women studies major hurls insults because I don't toe her particular line of orthodoxy.
I can't believe you guys are still talking about this.
87
Thank you for your advise. I specifically stated what that statement was referencing, and there were a lot of other comments before that too!
We can have a discussion about what constitutes rape culture, but it seems that the problem lies in the fact that there is an issue that it even exists. Which is weird. Because it does. And to point out that it does is not to make you feel bad, but to make everyone that doesn't think about it start thinking about it and our roles in it, and how to change it.
We can have a discussion about what constitutes rape culture, but it seems that the problem lies in the fact that there is an issue that it even exists. Which is weird. Because it does. And to point out that it does is not to make you feel bad, but to make everyone that doesn't think about it start thinking about it and our roles in it, and how to change it.
88
I wasn't a women's study major, but thank you for thinking so! I just read a lot because this subject interests me. I find it a worthwhile subject to continue to discuss. I feel like I should re-state I didn't put out any "orthodoxy" for you to subscribe to. Just stating the fact that it exists, and it's bad for everyone.
89
Sorry, anyone who walks around seeing 'rape culture' everywhere they look must be an insufferable bore and a god awful fuck. As insufferable, intolerant and joyless as Christian fundies.
93
always wondered why women in Seattle could not take a compliment...is this the reason?
I "cat call" all the time. I say direct compliments, not obscene things. Yet I get vicious stares, or no social return at all (straight ignored).
Here are three things you might here me say " Nice shirt, I like that color" ... "I dig your style" ... "Hey there, would it kill you to smile? The sun is actually out for once"
I "cat call" all the time. I say direct compliments, not obscene things. Yet I get vicious stares, or no social return at all (straight ignored).
Here are three things you might here me say " Nice shirt, I like that color" ... "I dig your style" ... "Hey there, would it kill you to smile? The sun is actually out for once"
96
@93
I can't speak for the other two, but you deserve every ounce of ire possible for the last one of thoe lines. that's just fucking rude. a complete stranger who has no idea what's going on in your life basically says "turn that frown upside down!". if you'd appreciate someone saying that to you, you're a fool or a liar.
that's all an aside though...a woman doesn't just owe you a smile, brah.
I can't speak for the other two, but you deserve every ounce of ire possible for the last one of thoe lines. that's just fucking rude. a complete stranger who has no idea what's going on in your life basically says "turn that frown upside down!". if you'd appreciate someone saying that to you, you're a fool or a liar.
that's all an aside though...a woman doesn't just owe you a smile, brah.
97
@63. I agree that the radfemologial images website is not a reflection of the mainstream feminist movement. Firstly, it's from the Radical Feminist camp, and is a unique interpretation of Radical Feminism at that.
A lot of their analysis gets a "what the fuck? how do you read so much into that ad"? but there is often one or two things in their analysis that makes me think, and so I do check that site now and again. They don't go for the obvious examples of anti-woman messages in mainstream culture. Most of the ads they post have me saying "what the hell are they going to read into this one?" but then I read their interpretation, and there's often one or two insights I find interesting.
A lot of their analysis gets a "what the fuck? how do you read so much into that ad"? but there is often one or two things in their analysis that makes me think, and so I do check that site now and again. They don't go for the obvious examples of anti-woman messages in mainstream culture. Most of the ads they post have me saying "what the hell are they going to read into this one?" but then I read their interpretation, and there's often one or two insights I find interesting.
98
@97
I actually wanted to say to you, I don't have a problem with the ad critiques they made. most of those were actually spot on and thought-provoking. there's just no way I could ever get on board with an agenda like theirs and I like to consider myself pretty open minded.
I actually wanted to say to you, I don't have a problem with the ad critiques they made. most of those were actually spot on and thought-provoking. there's just no way I could ever get on board with an agenda like theirs and I like to consider myself pretty open minded.
100
Who's making rape jokes? Making jokes about irrational, hysterical, angry radical feminists is not the same as a rape joke. I don't think I've ever heard a rape joke except jail jokes and that's men who are the victims.
104
All men. Every single one. Your dad. My dad. Your brother. Your uncle. Every male relative. All rapists. All women know this. We think we know that "one guy" that's not like that. But if he isn't a "hands on" rapist he's covered for a "hands on" rapist. Men rape us with anything and everything. None are to be trusted.
They want to control everything but they can't even control themselves. The only good male is one that has had his genitals mutilated. Maybe put a lit cig out in the shaft? Or a nice welding accident. Weld the offending member to the inner thigh. Sounds like a good world. All men are rapists. We all know it.
They want to control everything but they can't even control themselves. The only good male is one that has had his genitals mutilated. Maybe put a lit cig out in the shaft? Or a nice welding accident. Weld the offending member to the inner thigh. Sounds like a good world. All men are rapists. We all know it.
105
All men. Every single one. Your dad. My dad. Your brother. Your uncle. Every male relative. All rapists. All women know this. We think we know that "one guy" that's not like that. But if he isn't a "hands on" rapist he's covered for a "hands on" rapist. Men rape us with anything and everything. None are to be trusted.
They want to control everything but they can't even control themselves. The only good male is one that has had his genitals mutilated. Maybe put a lit cig out in the shaft? Or a nice welding accident. Weld the offending member to the inner thigh. Sounds like a good world. All men are rapists. We all know it.
They want to control everything but they can't even control themselves. The only good male is one that has had his genitals mutilated. Maybe put a lit cig out in the shaft? Or a nice welding accident. Weld the offending member to the inner thigh. Sounds like a good world. All men are rapists. We all know it.
106
No man is a feminist. You can't be a feminist when you wake up ready to rape a woman. Please. These comments are so misinformed. You males keep lying. All of you would rape a woman if you thought you'd never get caught. ALL OF YOU. It's nice so many teenager boys come here and comment. Women and men are not equal. Who would want to be equal to any pile of sh*t male? Women are better. Superior. That's why men rape us and hold us down every chance they get. We are superior. Women are better. Every day. All day.
108
I'd prefer if you girls didn't vandalize my neighborhood. It's a nice place and then you gotta come in and make it all shitty. :|
109
anyone who sees something like this and feels threatened by people saying "rape is bad" to the point that they feel the need to publicly shit-talk on the internet should take a long hard look at the way they conduct their life. if seeing women fight back against rape and rape culture (which is, yes, a real thing, rednecks) in a public space makes you feel insecure, then evaluate your feelings and put them in perspective and think carefully about what you say. because "rape apologist" is not a title you want on your head, especially if you're an intelligent person who just is unfortunate enough to lack the perspective to understand why "Girl Army" is doing something important. unless you are a rapist. then, by all means, defend yourself.
111
My problem with this wall is that, even if there is an important message being pushed, it is hazy, unclear and comes off as nothing more than angry women scrawling random messages.
It is hard to take it seriously.
Maybe defining one poignant message and purchasing billboard space to convey it would have been a better approach.
It is hard to take it seriously.
Maybe defining one poignant message and purchasing billboard space to convey it would have been a better approach.
112
they don't need a billboard because they aren't selling anything.
these are artists and activists and they are dialoguing with visuals and words and emotions. it's messy because rape, the preamble (culture), the act, and the fallout after it are messy. if it looks juvenile, maybe it is. maybe this is the work of women coming of age and confronting the widespread epidemic of rape in our culture and the rage that comes from that. it's definitely the rage of women who have been sexually assaulted, or known women who have been sexually assaulted (pretty much everyone I know falls into one of these categories).
i believe in men and their ability to be feminists and wonderful people, and i have compassion for the way being a man can be equated to being a rapist, when those things are not the same. i do not have compassion for men who will never know what it feels like to be a woman, to be in a female body, to be vunerable or fearful or attacked in this very specific way, who try to control or decide how women should behave or feel on the matter of rape and rape culture.
THESE WOMEN ARE ANGRY BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE ANGRY ABOUT. AND I AM ONE OF THEM.
these are artists and activists and they are dialoguing with visuals and words and emotions. it's messy because rape, the preamble (culture), the act, and the fallout after it are messy. if it looks juvenile, maybe it is. maybe this is the work of women coming of age and confronting the widespread epidemic of rape in our culture and the rage that comes from that. it's definitely the rage of women who have been sexually assaulted, or known women who have been sexually assaulted (pretty much everyone I know falls into one of these categories).
i believe in men and their ability to be feminists and wonderful people, and i have compassion for the way being a man can be equated to being a rapist, when those things are not the same. i do not have compassion for men who will never know what it feels like to be a woman, to be in a female body, to be vunerable or fearful or attacked in this very specific way, who try to control or decide how women should behave or feel on the matter of rape and rape culture.
THESE WOMEN ARE ANGRY BECAUSE THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE ANGRY ABOUT. AND I AM ONE OF THEM.
113
@ 83
No more pink utility poles! City workers painted the four columns in my 'hood.
The employee I spoke with said it taken them two days so far but they weren't done.
Oh, and the city council sent a representative to talk to the Girl Power folks about their lawlessness.
Take that law breakers and vandals!
No more pink utility poles! City workers painted the four columns in my 'hood.
The employee I spoke with said it taken them two days so far but they weren't done.
Oh, and the city council sent a representative to talk to the Girl Power folks about their lawlessness.
Take that law breakers and vandals!
115
amazing, makes me totally want to do the same!!!! i feel like we don't have an active enough way to spread the message in an open forum. painting it on a building doesn't allow it to be ignored. i love this! xo, aiyanajane
http://citystylecountrysmile.com/2013/03…
http://citystylecountrysmile.com/2013/03…
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